Discussion:
New PIM is coming
(too old to reply)
r634718
2007-05-22 19:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Phil
Are you around? Or is anyone around that knows anything about this?

Did this project go any further or is it just another in a decade
long trail of Ecco follow-up dead ends. (Excuse my sarcasm Phil, you
don't owe us anything, of course you have other things to do. But I
can't help being disgusted with the continuous chain of "monumental"
announcements followed by a big brew ha ha and much hand wringing,
followed by either an immediate or a slow and torturous dead end.
AYE CARUMBA!)

I am still astounded that in 10 years, nothing has developed to be a
successor for ECCO. As I have said, there are dozens of open source
projects that are dedicated to far less useful programs. Why the
heck didn't an Eccolike PIM ever get started on that basis (without
NM altogether...who needs them.). It baffles me to this day.

I'm traumatized by a decade of this!

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Phil Seeman" <***@...> wrote:
>
> I promised an update on the status of my project...
>
> Like others before me who have undertaken to write a new ECCO-like
PIM
> "on the side", I've worked on the project at times but have to give
> first priority to my primary software business and putting food on
the
> table.
>
> I have the core functionality of an outlining UI and associated
> underlying data storage done, though not thoroughly tested. This
is a
> key component, but there is more to do before it can be called a
usable
> app. I work on it from time to time and will continue to do so, but
> alas can't make it my top priority, much as I would like to.
>
> On a related note, it continues to surprise me how many folks in
this
> forum, including some developers, think that it should be easy to
> develop an ECCO replacement. The forum member "yoursowelcomethanks"
> finally expressed it properly in another thread so I'll comment a
little
> more there.
>
> - Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: D K [mailto:***@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 5:26 PM
> To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: RE: [eccopro] Re: New PIM is coming
>
> Yes, I too am interested in knowing what the status of this project
is .
> .
>
> To Post a message, send it to: ***@...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-***@...
>
> Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-23 00:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to Ecco
Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not an
add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate reports
with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
Office you have:

1- User defined functions
2- Field calculations
3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
show/hide hierarchy)
5- Multiple parents
6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
7- Office integration
8- Item Color coding
9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
10- Advanced filtering
11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each user
has his/her own UI settings
14- E-mail checker
15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
17- Multi-column select/export
18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
19- Cell merge
20- Powerful data import
21- External database synch
22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
24- Field inheritance
25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
28- File-linking through drag-drop
29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in parents.
Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
30- Time counters
31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
and much more...

And coming soon:
1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management (task
dependancy, etc)
2- Hyperlinks between database items

This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is now
my main software for my consulting activities including billing. It
is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2 months.

I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.

Pierre
John LeBlanc
2007-05-23 13:21:28 UTC
Permalink
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<p><div style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;">Sounds promising; what's the earliest version of Office it will work with?</SPAN></div>
<div style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;"><br></SPAN><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">John LeBlanc</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">____________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;"><br><br></span></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">John C. LeBlanc, MD, MSc, FRCPC</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">Associate Professor</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Community Health and Epidemiology</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">Dalhousie University</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;"><br><br></span></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">IWK Health Centre &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; Work phone: (902) 470-8930</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">5850 University Avenue &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;Work fax: &#160; (902) 470-6913</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">Halifax, Nova Scotia &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;Email: John.LeBlanc@<wbr>Dal.Ca</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">B3K 6R8 CANADA &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; &#160;Pager: &#160; &#160; &#160;(902) 470-8888</SPAN></div>
<div class="p" style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-family:'Courier New';font-size:10pt;">____________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_________<wbr>_</SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;"><br><br>On Wed, 23 May 2007 00:14:14 -0000, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:</SPAN></div>
<div style="background-color:white;"><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;">Hi,<br><br> NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to Ecco <br>&#160;Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not an <br>&#160;add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office <br>&#160;suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate reports <br>&#160;with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for <br>&#160;Office you have:<br><br> 1- User defined functions<br> 2- Field calculations<br> 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)<br> 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents, <br>&#160;show/hide hierarchy)<br> 5- Multiple parents<br> 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)<br> 7- Office integration<br> 8- Item Color coding<br> 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)<br> 10- Advan
ced filtering<br> 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)<br> 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace<br> 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each user <br>&#160;has his/her own UI settings<br> 14- E-mail checker<br> 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)<br> 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor<br> 17- Multi-column select/export<br> 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons<br> 19- Cell merge<br> 20- Powerful data import<br> 21- External database synch<br> 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)<br> 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)<br> 24- Field inheritance<br> 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)<br> 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)<br> 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item<br> 28- File-linking through drag-drop<br> 29- Ph
one number recognition in all fields in the item or in parents.<br> Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)<br> 30- Time counters<br> 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages<br> and much more...<br><br> And coming soon:<br> 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management (task <br>&#160;dependancy, etc)<br> 2- Hyperlinks between database items<br><br> This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by <br>&#160;numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is now <br>&#160;my main software for my consulting activities including billing. It <br>&#160;is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2 months.<br><br> I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.<br><br> Pierre<br><br></SPAN><SPAN style="font-size:12pt;color:white;"></SPAN></div>

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Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-23 18:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Office 2000 is fine. But office is not required by any means.
.
2007-05-24 19:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Pierre:

I am salivating already ....

Will your program be able to import our Ecco data (including data in columns)?

Crossing my fingers ....

Santiago
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-24 19:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Yes it will. Ecco data import is partially completed.

I need too, to import some stuff that is still in ecco (even though
most new stuff is in SQLNotes obviously.

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "." <***@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Pierre:
>
> I am salivating already ....
>
> Will your program be able to import our Ecco data (including data
in columns)?
>
> Crossing my fingers ....
>
> Santiago
>
hustoniii
2007-05-29 00:53:29 UTC
Permalink
This is a lot like listening to a friend describe a hot looking girl
he knows who'll put out for you....tantalizing and frustrating....

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes it will. Ecco data import is partially completed.
>
> I need too, to import some stuff that is still in ecco (even though
> most new stuff is in SQLNotes obviously.
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "." <santipu@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Pierre:
> >
> > I am salivating already ....
> >
> > Will your program be able to import our Ecco data (including data
> in columns)?
> >
> > Crossing my fingers ....
> >
> > Santiago
> >
>
Fr. Theodore Bergenske
2007-05-23 17:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Hello,



Definitely keep me posted. I would also be interested in any beta
testing.



FT



________________________________

From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Pierre Paul Landry
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 7:14 PM
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [eccopro] Re: New PIM is coming - SQL Notes for Office



Hi,

NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to Ecco
Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not an
add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate reports
with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
Office you have:

1- User defined functions
2- Field calculations
3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
show/hide hierarchy)
5- Multiple parents
6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
7- Office integration
8- Item Color coding
9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
10- Advanced filtering
11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each user
has his/her own UI settings
14- E-mail checker
15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
17- Multi-column select/export
18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
19- Cell merge
20- Powerful data import
21- External database synch
22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
24- Field inheritance
25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
28- File-linking through drag-drop
29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in parents.
Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
30- Time counters
31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
and much more...

And coming soon:
1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management (task
dependancy, etc)
2- Hyperlinks between database items

This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is now
my main software for my consulting activities including billing. It
is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2 months.

I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.

Pierre
r634718
2007-05-23 19:13:03 UTC
Permalink
While the list of features looks impressive, I've seen that kind of
list before and it turned out to be a bust (if it every materialized
at all). Also, there are other Outlook compatible programs that do
some of these things that I have tried, but I thought they were
awful. I don't think you can tell a thing from the feature list, it's
all in the implementation. And I'm not sure about anything built on
Outlook in the first place. It's such freakin' bloatware and so full
of sluggishness, inelegance and bugs. Great concepts, lousy
implementations.

Excuse my skepticism but there have been so many projects that
claimed they were going to be Ecco successors that ended up on the
garbage heap (or never even got off the ground). Then there are a few
existing programs that claim they are good Ecco substitutes, whose
developers sometimes post in here claiming such, but they are not
even close.

I won't believe anything like this until I see it.

As always, I hope my skepticism is unfounded. And I'll certainly
take a look if it is actually released. We'll see.


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to
Ecco
> Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not an
> add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
reports
> with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> Office you have:
>
> 1- User defined functions
> 2- Field calculations
> 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> show/hide hierarchy)
> 5- Multiple parents
> 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> 7- Office integration
> 8- Item Color coding
> 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> 10- Advanced filtering
> 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
user
> has his/her own UI settings
> 14- E-mail checker
> 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> 17- Multi-column select/export
> 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> 19- Cell merge
> 20- Powerful data import
> 21- External database synch
> 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> 24- Field inheritance
> 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
parents.
> Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> 30- Time counters
> 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> and much more...
>
> And coming soon:
> 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
(task
> dependancy, etc)
> 2- Hyperlinks between database items
>
> This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is
now
> my main software for my consulting activities including billing. It
> is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2 months.
>
> I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
>
> Pierre
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-23 21:06:40 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

> While the list of features looks impressive, I've seen that kind of
> list before and it turned out to be a bust (if it every
materialized

The supplied list is already functional and fully tested. I have a
few customers using it. All very satisfied. I'm currently fixing
loose ends, improving the UI robursness (Data robustness is already
well established). But coming up with a refined, robust, secure,
distributable program is a complex task.

>And I'm not sure about anything built on
> Outlook in the first place. It's such freakin' bloatware and so
full of sluggishness, inelegance and bugs. Great concepts, lousy
> implementations.

SQLNotes is not built on Outlook at all. In fact, Outlook is the
least useful of the office links it has.
>
> Excuse my skepticism but there have been so many projects that
> claimed they were going to be Ecco successors that ended up on the
> garbage heap (or never even got off the ground). Then there are a
few existing programs that claim they are good Ecco substitutes,
whose developers sometimes post in here claiming such, but they are
not > even close.

I can sense that skepticism in many users. I can understand it too.
Ecco is a great program which I've been using since 1993. I have
recommended it to many customers. Over time though many of its
limitations was a source of frustrations to me. Hence the SQLNotes
project, stated in 2003.
>
> I won't believe anything like this until I see it.
>
Fair enough. I would do the same. Web site is coming

Pierre


> As always, I hope my skepticism is unfounded. And I'll certainly
> take a look if it is actually released. We'll see.
>
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to
> Ecco
> > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not
an
> > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> reports
> > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> > Office you have:
> >
> > 1- User defined functions
> > 2- Field calculations
> > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> > show/hide hierarchy)
> > 5- Multiple parents
> > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > 7- Office integration
> > 8- Item Color coding
> > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > 10- Advanced filtering
> > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
> user
> > has his/her own UI settings
> > 14- E-mail checker
> > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > 19- Cell merge
> > 20- Powerful data import
> > 21- External database synch
> > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > 24- Field inheritance
> > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> parents.
> > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > 30- Time counters
> > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > and much more...
> >
> > And coming soon:
> > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
> (task
> > dependancy, etc)
> > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> >
> > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is
> now
> > my main software for my consulting activities including billing.
It
> > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
months.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
> >
> > Pierre
> >
>
r634718
2007-05-24 00:55:18 UTC
Permalink
LOL... well I appreciate your candor Pierre. I understand how
difficult it is to create something that can be even better than the
magical product ECCO. If it was easy it would have been done by
now. The thing about ECCO is not just its features, it's
its "feel," its elegance and things like its reliability, stability,
etc. That isn't going to be easy to duplicate...ever.

There are not many unique things about ECCO that you can't find
elsewhere. As I see it, it's the artistic and elegantly useful way
it's all put together that creates the magic. Hard to beat...hard
to beat.

But in spite of my skepticism, my love for the Ecco concept still
leaves me open minded to a real and even better replacement. I
crave it. And I hope like heck you can make it happen sir.

In the end, for me it boils down to "show me the product."
Everything else is just talk.


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > While the list of features looks impressive, I've seen that kind
of
> > list before and it turned out to be a bust (if it every
> materialized
>
> The supplied list is already functional and fully tested. I have a
> few customers using it. All very satisfied. I'm currently fixing
> loose ends, improving the UI robursness (Data robustness is
already
> well established). But coming up with a refined, robust, secure,
> distributable program is a complex task.
>
> >And I'm not sure about anything built on
> > Outlook in the first place. It's such freakin' bloatware and so
> full of sluggishness, inelegance and bugs. Great concepts, lousy
> > implementations.
>
> SQLNotes is not built on Outlook at all. In fact, Outlook is the
> least useful of the office links it has.
> >
> > Excuse my skepticism but there have been so many projects that
> > claimed they were going to be Ecco successors that ended up on
the
> > garbage heap (or never even got off the ground). Then there are
a
> few existing programs that claim they are good Ecco substitutes,
> whose developers sometimes post in here claiming such, but they
are
> not > even close.
>
> I can sense that skepticism in many users. I can understand it
too.
> Ecco is a great program which I've been using since 1993. I have
> recommended it to many customers. Over time though many of its
> limitations was a source of frustrations to me. Hence the SQLNotes
> project, stated in 2003.
> >
> > I won't believe anything like this until I see it.
> >
> Fair enough. I would do the same. Web site is coming
>
> Pierre
>
>
> > As always, I hope my skepticism is unfounded. And I'll
certainly
> > take a look if it is actually released. We'll see.
> >
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor
to
> > Ecco
> > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e.
not
> an
> > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft
Office
> > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> > reports
> > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes
for
> > > Office you have:
> > >
> > > 1- User defined functions
> > > 2- Field calculations
> > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > 7- Office integration
> > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and
each
> > user
> > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML
Editor
> > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > 19- Cell merge
> > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > 21- External database synch
> > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> > parents.
> > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > 30- Time counters
> > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > and much more...
> > >
> > > And coming soon:
> > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project
management
> > (task
> > > dependancy, etc)
> > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > >
> > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It
is
> > now
> > > my main software for my consulting activities including
billing.
> It
> > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
> months.
> > >
> > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
available.
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> >
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-24 01:29:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Like I said earlier, I'm a long time user of Ecco. In designing
SQLNotes, I always compare with Ecco, to reproduce its behaviour and
improve on it when I find it deficient. For example, the item display
is very rigid in Ecco. Items on the left, columns on the right.
Wordwrap only on the items. No way to select columns. These
limitations are all gone in SQLNotes. You are totally free to place
the items column where you want and select any set of columns. In
fact, the concept of the item, often confusing to users does not need
to be displayed. The Items columns is just line any other columns.

Also, Ecco was weak in terms of computations, and I/O. These are gone
too. You can access a view from any tools that can read an ODBC data
source (i.e. Access, Excel or other non-microsoft soft). The big
point here, is that data is not locked in SQLNotes and users that
don't have it can be made to have access (read-only of course) to the
data using standard tools. A secretary can for example do a mail-
merge of SQLNotes data without having a licence, just using Word. Co-
workers can also see the info that you make public.

These were weak points in Ecco. There are numerous other ones which
I'm willing to discuss in this forum (multiple parents, context
parent display, etc)

Ecco had a nice UI, but when using it a lot, some aspects were
limiting.

Have a great day

Pierre

p.s. To all, I'm available to chat on yahoo messenger
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <***@...> wrote:
>
> LOL... well I appreciate your candor Pierre. I understand how
> difficult it is to create something that can be even better than
the
> magical product ECCO. If it was easy it would have been done by
> now. The thing about ECCO is not just its features, it's
> its "feel," its elegance and things like its reliability,
stability,
> etc. That isn't going to be easy to duplicate...ever.
>
> There are not many unique things about ECCO that you can't find
> elsewhere. As I see it, it's the artistic and elegantly useful way
> it's all put together that creates the magic. Hard to beat...hard
> to beat.
>
> But in spite of my skepticism, my love for the Ecco concept still
> leaves me open minded to a real and even better replacement. I
> crave it. And I hope like heck you can make it happen sir.
>
> In the end, for me it boils down to "show me the product."
> Everything else is just talk.
>
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > While the list of features looks impressive, I've seen that
kind
> of
> > > list before and it turned out to be a bust (if it every
> > materialized
> >
> > The supplied list is already functional and fully tested. I have
a
> > few customers using it. All very satisfied. I'm currently fixing
> > loose ends, improving the UI robursness (Data robustness is
> already
> > well established). But coming up with a refined, robust, secure,
> > distributable program is a complex task.
> >
> > >And I'm not sure about anything built on
> > > Outlook in the first place. It's such freakin' bloatware and
so
> > full of sluggishness, inelegance and bugs. Great concepts, lousy
> > > implementations.
> >
> > SQLNotes is not built on Outlook at all. In fact, Outlook is the
> > least useful of the office links it has.
> > >
> > > Excuse my skepticism but there have been so many projects that
> > > claimed they were going to be Ecco successors that ended up on
> the
> > > garbage heap (or never even got off the ground). Then there are
> a
> > few existing programs that claim they are good Ecco substitutes,
> > whose developers sometimes post in here claiming such, but they
> are
> > not > even close.
> >
> > I can sense that skepticism in many users. I can understand it
> too.
> > Ecco is a great program which I've been using since 1993. I have
> > recommended it to many customers. Over time though many of its
> > limitations was a source of frustrations to me. Hence the
SQLNotes
> > project, stated in 2003.
> > >
> > > I won't believe anything like this until I see it.
> > >
> > Fair enough. I would do the same. Web site is coming
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> >
> > > As always, I hope my skepticism is unfounded. And I'll
> certainly
> > > take a look if it is actually released. We'll see.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor
> to
> > > Ecco
> > > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e.
> not
> > an
> > > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft
> Office
> > > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> > > reports
> > > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes
> for
> > > > Office you have:
> > > >
> > > > 1- User defined functions
> > > > 2- Field calculations
> > > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context
parents,
> > > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > > 7- Office integration
> > > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and
> each
> > > user
> > > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML
> Editor
> > > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > > 19- Cell merge
> > > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > > 21- External database synch
> > > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> > > parents.
> > > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > > 30- Time counters
> > > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > > and much more...
> > > >
> > > > And coming soon:
> > > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project
> management
> > > (task
> > > > dependancy, etc)
> > > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > > >
> > > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It
> is
> > > now
> > > > my main software for my consulting activities including
> billing.
> > It
> > > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
> > months.
> > > >
> > > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
> available.
> > > >
> > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
r634718
2007-05-24 02:00:55 UTC
Permalink
I agree with your assessment Pierre. And I can see you have an
excellent grasp of Ecco and its shortcomings as well as a good
knowledge of the technicals. I'm impressed with your expertise.

But, even so, I'd have to say that other very talented and Ecco
savvy people were, in the end, not able to pull it off. Make me a
believer, show us the product. I'm willing to believe!

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Like I said earlier, I'm a long time user of Ecco. In designing
> SQLNotes, I always compare with Ecco, to reproduce its behaviour
and
> improve on it when I find it deficient. For example, the item
display
> is very rigid in Ecco. Items on the left, columns on the right.
> Wordwrap only on the items. No way to select columns. These
> limitations are all gone in SQLNotes. You are totally free to
place
> the items column where you want and select any set of columns. In
> fact, the concept of the item, often confusing to users does not
need
> to be displayed. The Items columns is just line any other columns.
>
> Also, Ecco was weak in terms of computations, and I/O. These are
gone
> too. You can access a view from any tools that can read an ODBC
data
> source (i.e. Access, Excel or other non-microsoft soft). The big
> point here, is that data is not locked in SQLNotes and users that
> don't have it can be made to have access (read-only of course) to
the
> data using standard tools. A secretary can for example do a mail-
> merge of SQLNotes data without having a licence, just using Word.
Co-
> workers can also see the info that you make public.
>
> These were weak points in Ecco. There are numerous other ones
which
> I'm willing to discuss in this forum (multiple parents, context
> parent display, etc)
>
> Ecco had a nice UI, but when using it a lot, some aspects were
> limiting.
>
> Have a great day
>
> Pierre
>
> p.s. To all, I'm available to chat on yahoo messenger
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <r634718@> wrote:
> >
> > LOL... well I appreciate your candor Pierre. I understand how
> > difficult it is to create something that can be even better than
> the
> > magical product ECCO. If it was easy it would have been done by
> > now. The thing about ECCO is not just its features, it's
> > its "feel," its elegance and things like its reliability,
> stability,
> > etc. That isn't going to be easy to duplicate...ever.
> >
> > There are not many unique things about ECCO that you can't find
> > elsewhere. As I see it, it's the artistic and elegantly useful
way
> > it's all put together that creates the magic. Hard to
beat...hard
> > to beat.
> >
> > But in spite of my skepticism, my love for the Ecco concept
still
> > leaves me open minded to a real and even better replacement. I
> > crave it. And I hope like heck you can make it happen sir.
> >
> > In the end, for me it boils down to "show me the product."
> > Everything else is just talk.
> >
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > While the list of features looks impressive, I've seen that
> kind
> > of
> > > > list before and it turned out to be a bust (if it every
> > > materialized
> > >
> > > The supplied list is already functional and fully tested. I
have
> a
> > > few customers using it. All very satisfied. I'm currently
fixing
> > > loose ends, improving the UI robursness (Data robustness is
> > already
> > > well established). But coming up with a refined, robust,
secure,
> > > distributable program is a complex task.
> > >
> > > >And I'm not sure about anything built on
> > > > Outlook in the first place. It's such freakin' bloatware
and
> so
> > > full of sluggishness, inelegance and bugs. Great concepts,
lousy
> > > > implementations.
> > >
> > > SQLNotes is not built on Outlook at all. In fact, Outlook is
the
> > > least useful of the office links it has.
> > > >
> > > > Excuse my skepticism but there have been so many projects
that
> > > > claimed they were going to be Ecco successors that ended up
on
> > the
> > > > garbage heap (or never even got off the ground). Then there
are
> > a
> > > few existing programs that claim they are good Ecco
substitutes,
> > > whose developers sometimes post in here claiming such, but
they
> > are
> > > not > even close.
> > >
> > > I can sense that skepticism in many users. I can understand it
> > too.
> > > Ecco is a great program which I've been using since 1993. I
have
> > > recommended it to many customers. Over time though many of its
> > > limitations was a source of frustrations to me. Hence the
> SQLNotes
> > > project, stated in 2003.
> > > >
> > > > I won't believe anything like this until I see it.
> > > >
> > > Fair enough. I would do the same. Web site is coming
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> > >
> > > > As always, I hope my skepticism is unfounded. And I'll
> > certainly
> > > > take a look if it is actually released. We'll see.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry"
<ppl32@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a
successor
> > to
> > > > Ecco
> > > > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable
(i.e.
> > not
> > > an
> > > > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft
> > Office
> > > > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word,
generate
> > > > reports
> > > > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With
SQLNotes
> > for
> > > > > Office you have:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1- User defined functions
> > > > > 2- Field calculations
> > > > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context
> parents,
> > > > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > > > 7- Office integration
> > > > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located
and
> > each
> > > > user
> > > > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with
HTML
> > Editor
> > > > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > > > 19- Cell merge
> > > > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > > > 21- External database synch
> > > > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or
in
> > > > parents.
> > > > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > > > 30- Time counters
> > > > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > > > and much more...
> > > > >
> > > > > And coming soon:
> > > > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project
> > management
> > > > (task
> > > > > dependancy, etc)
> > > > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > > > >
> > > > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested
by
> > > > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications.
It
> > is
> > > > now
> > > > > my main software for my consulting activities including
> > billing.
> > > It
> > > > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within
2
> > > months.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
> > available.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pierre
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-24 02:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Some things small, some more important. Other examples of
improvements. Searches are a pain in Ecco. You could search in items
but and/or were not permitted. If you searched in items and columns,
it messed up the search view columns... In SQLNotes, you have all
control. There are actually many ways to search. The most useful one
presents you with a small form where you enter the text ( AND is
assumed when a comma is encountered), The field type (text, number,
date, ...), the list of fields to search (leave blank to search all,
the source view and the destination view. If the results is not quite
right, you can edit the filter SQL string to suit your need. It's not
called SQLNotes for nothing.

Filter are a mix-bag. Too UI intensive to my taste. Hard to manage
ANDs and ORs effectively for complex filters. In fact, some of the
features were removed from 3.x to 4.0 when that part of the UI was
updated. SQLNotes is nearly limitless in its filtering capabilities
and the filter content is clearly shown.

Sorting was also a pain, since Ecco did not remember sorts. When new
items are added, one must always repeat the search. If the search is
on many columns, one must repeat for each column in reverse order
(fun!) In SQLNotes, multi-field sorts are stored and clearly
displayed.

Phone dialing in Ecco was OK as long as you worked at the same place
all the time. Otherwise, as far as I know since I did not use that
feature much, it was not easy to manage when to dial 1, area codes,
etc. SQLNotes uses TAPI rules, so just change your location and voilà
all dialed numbers are changed. SQLNotes also searches all fields
(using REGEXP) to find anything that looks like a phone number. In
the item but also in parents (yes, and it is a great feature
believe). Just set person A to be a child of Company B and it will
find company B phone numbers.

Last for now is item information. In Ecco, one is left in the dark as
to when an item was created, when a value as changed, by who, etc. In
SQLNotes, this information is readily available, on a field by field
basis. And every change is immediately save in the DB, field by
field, so a system crash (or power failure) is no problem. Nothing is
lost, in Ecco, it all depends on your auto-save frequency.

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <***@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with your assessment Pierre. And I can see you have an
> excellent grasp of Ecco and its shortcomings as well as a good
> knowledge of the technicals. I'm impressed with your expertise.
>
> But, even so, I'd have to say that other very talented and Ecco
> savvy people were, in the end, not able to pull it off. Make me a
> believer, show us the product. I'm willing to believe!
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Like I said earlier, I'm a long time user of Ecco. In designing
> > SQLNotes, I always compare with Ecco, to reproduce its behaviour
> and
> > improve on it when I find it deficient. For example, the item
> display
> > is very rigid in Ecco. Items on the left, columns on the right.
> > Wordwrap only on the items. No way to select columns. These
> > limitations are all gone in SQLNotes. You are totally free to
> place
> > the items column where you want and select any set of columns. In
> > fact, the concept of the item, often confusing to users does not
> need
> > to be displayed. The Items columns is just line any other
columns.
> >
> > Also, Ecco was weak in terms of computations, and I/O. These are
> gone
> > too. You can access a view from any tools that can read an ODBC
> data
> > source (i.e. Access, Excel or other non-microsoft soft). The big
> > point here, is that data is not locked in SQLNotes and users that
> > don't have it can be made to have access (read-only of course) to
> the
> > data using standard tools. A secretary can for example do a mail-
> > merge of SQLNotes data without having a licence, just using Word.
> Co-
> > workers can also see the info that you make public.
> >
> > These were weak points in Ecco. There are numerous other ones
> which
> > I'm willing to discuss in this forum (multiple parents, context
> > parent display, etc)
> >
> > Ecco had a nice UI, but when using it a lot, some aspects were
> > limiting.
> >
> > Have a great day
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> > p.s. To all, I'm available to chat on yahoo messenger
rthamper
2007-05-25 00:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Re SQLNotes: it really sounds good . . . however, what provisions are
made for importing data from existing databases like Ecco, TreePad,
Ultra Recall, etc., into SQLNotes?

--- Rich
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-25 01:25:46 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "rthamper" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Re SQLNotes: it really sounds good . . . however, what provisions are
> made for importing data from existing databases like Ecco, TreePad,
> Ultra Recall, etc., into SQLNotes?
>
> --- Rich
>
One thing at a time. It will import Ecco. Other will follow. Of course,
it currently imports delimited files, so that can cover quite a bit of
ground.

Pierre
Ilona Zablocki
2007-05-29 21:44:42 UTC
Permalink
At 05:29 PM 5/23/2007, you wrote:
>Like I said earlier, I'm a long time user of Ecco. In designing
>SQLNotes, I always compare with Ecco, to reproduce its behaviour and
>improve on it when I find it deficient. For example.... These
>limitations are all gone in SQLNotes. You are totally free to place
>the items column where you want and select any set of columns.

I am not a very sophisticated user. I know that ECCO has many many
features I haven't learned to use yet.

I hope very much that when I buy your new product, it will be
possible to start it "in Ecco mode." So that I wouldn't have to
deal with all the new choices ... I could just import my data, and it
wouldn't take me a long time to learn how to use the new program.

The one thing that drives me nuts in Ecco is I can sort the main list
of items, but I can't sort a subset underneath an item. I mean, if I
have a list of vegetable seeds, I can sort that alphabetically,
easily. But then, under "lettuce" I have 15 varieties ... I'd like
to be able to sort them alphabetically too. Now, I just copy the
list into WordPerfect, sort it, and recopy it back into Ecco. I hope
your version will all allow me to select a portion of my list, and
sort just that portion

At 04:39 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote:
> Also, SQL implies that complex queries
>(with AND, OR, etc) are possible, something lacking in many PIM's
>(including Ecco).

It conveys this information to people who know SQL, but not to those
of us who've never heard of SQL.

I wish you all sorts of good luck!! I can't imagine living without
ECCO. I would be very happy to continue living without new versions
of Windows every few years... but it doesn't look like I have a
choice about that.
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-30 00:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

> I hope very much that when I buy your new product, it will be
> possible to start it "in Ecco mode." So that I wouldn't have to
> deal with all the new choices ... I could just import my data, and
it wouldn't take me a long time to learn how to use the new program.

I don't think that I'll have an Ecco mode in the initial release. It
is already on the same model as Ecco (Views, fields, item tree,
columns, etc.). Be sure though that I've learned from Ecco's steep
learning curve and have done all possible to make SQLNotes more user
friendly. For example, Fields. In Ecco, they are called: folders and
columns. Two names for the same thing. Confusing for many users. In
SQLNotes they are called fields. Fields can be shown in columns (as
in Excel) or in property sheets.

> The one thing that drives me nuts in Ecco is I can sort the main
list of items, but I can't sort a subset underneath an item. I mean,
if I have a list of vegetable seeds, I can sort that alphabetically,
> easily. But then, under "lettuce" I have 15 varieties ... I'd like
> to be able to sort them alphabetically too. Now, I just copy the
> list into WordPerfect, sort it, and recopy it back into Ecco.

Yes I can say that sub-items can be made to sort on the same sort
criteria as items. This is already built-in. Sort criteria are always
applied to views (notepads in Ecco), which is not the case in Ecco.
Where one must re=apply sort when new items are added.

Pierre
jjartus
2007-05-30 19:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Hello Pierre Paul Landry


On Wed, 30 May 2007, at 00:46:33 [GMT -0000] (which was 30/05/2007 (D/M/Y) 2:46 where I live) you wrote:

PPL> In Ecco, they are called: folders and
PPL> columns. Two names for the same thing. Confusing for many users.

I think that the confusion arises from the fact that it is not well
understood nor explained. Even the printed book manuals of the first
times of ECCO where confusing, not to say the expression "a folder is
a column is a folder". But in no way a folder and a column are the
same thing.

In my opinion the best model to explain ECCO's behavior is that an
item has one (or more) links to a value. When you open a folder you
see the item side of the link. In the column you see the value. And
for me is one of the genialities of ECCO. When people understand
that, no more confusion.

But anyway I am another of your customers.

--
Best regards,
Joan Josep
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-30 21:10:27 UTC
Permalink
I think we are saying the same thing. When you open a folder, you see
items which have a value in that folder. The column (or the property
sheet) displays that value.

SQLNotes is more flexible in that it allows the list to match any
criteria. The simplest is "value in folder" (as in Ecco) but anything
else is good (i.e. value in folder X but none in folder Y, or greater
than Z, etc)

Pierre

> In my opinion the best model to explain ECCO's behavior is that an
> item has one (or more) links to a value. When you open a folder you
> see the item side of the link. In the column you see the value. And
> for me is one of the genialities of ECCO. When people understand
> that, no more confusion.
>
> But anyway I am another of your customers.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Joan Josep
>
Chris Thompson
2007-05-30 21:25:06 UTC
Permalink
The ability to match any criteria sounds tantalizing and fantastic.
Looking forward to the product.

-- Chris

On 30-May-07, at 3:10 PM, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> SQLNotes is more flexible in that it allows the list to match any
> criteria. The simplest is "value in folder" (as in Ecco) but anything
> else is good (i.e. value in folder X but none in folder Y, or greater
> than Z, etc)
>
> Pierre
>
brjlk
2007-05-30 01:55:46 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Ilona Zablocki <***@...> wrote:
>
> At 05:29 PM 5/23/2007, you wrote:
> The one thing that drives me nuts in Ecco is I can sort the main
list
> of items, but I can't sort a subset underneath an item.

You can sort subitems in Listpro, which is much Ecco like
http://iliumsoft.com/site/lp/lp_ssh.htm#hpc

John
Ilona Zablocki
2007-05-30 03:38:51 UTC
Permalink
At 05:55 PM 5/29/2007, you wrote:
You can sort subitems in Listpro, which is much Ecco like
>http://iliumsoft.com/site/lp/lp_ssh.htm#hpc

I love Ecco, and I have learned how to do much of what I want to do
in Ecco, though I'm sure there are many features I don't fully understand.

Thanks for the Listpro suggestion, but right now I don't want to go
learn a new program, even if it may have some features Ecco lacks. I
am drowning in programs that need updates and programs I need to
learn better... I need to install the new version of Dragon
Naturally, but in order to do that my computer needs more RAM... does
anyone else have the feeling that they are drowning in programs that
need attention?

I will make the time to switch to an Ecco replacement... if/when the
heavy hitters on this list tell me it's the real thing.
Ron Chusid
2007-05-24 23:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Does the program sync with the Palm as Ecco does?

Will mail merge only work with Office, or could it also work with
other word processors--I use WordPerfect.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to Ecco
> Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not an
> add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate reports
> with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> Office you have:
>
> 1- User defined functions
> 2- Field calculations
> 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> show/hide hierarchy)
> 5- Multiple parents
> 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> 7- Office integration
> 8- Item Color coding
> 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> 10- Advanced filtering
> 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each user
> has his/her own UI settings
> 14- E-mail checker
> 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> 17- Multi-column select/export
> 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> 19- Cell merge
> 20- Powerful data import
> 21- External database synch
> 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> 24- Field inheritance
> 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in parents.
> Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> 30- Time counters
> 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> and much more...
>
> And coming soon:
> 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management (task
> dependancy, etc)
> 2- Hyperlinks between database items
>
> This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is now
> my main software for my consulting activities including billing. It
> is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2 months.
>
> I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
>
> Pierre
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-25 01:24:03 UTC
Permalink
> Does the program sync with the Palm as Ecco does?

Currently it does not synch directly with the Palm. Anyone interested
in contributing code/expertise to do this is welcomed. Otherwise, I'm
sure that one can find off-the-shelf components that I could purchase
to do it.

In the initial release, I'm planning synch with Outlook only. Since
every device on earth can synch with it (PDA, phones, MP3 players,
whatever), it covers a large base. Specific synch is of course
planned, but no-one can expect that I write code to synch with every
possible devices. If SQLNotes is successful, certainly, one or more
of the many synch software will add a SQLNotes driver.

Will mail merge only work with Office, or could it also work with
> other word processors--I use WordPerfect.

Any modern word processors can mail-merge with an ODBC data source.
Internally, SQLNotes uses Jet 4.0, the most common database format. I
purposely kept away from proprietary formats, to have wide access to
the data (not like Ecco with only DDE as possible link to data)

>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to
Ecco
> > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not
an
> > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
reports
> > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> > Office you have:
> >
> > 1- User defined functions
> > 2- Field calculations
> > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> > show/hide hierarchy)
> > 5- Multiple parents
> > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > 7- Office integration
> > 8- Item Color coding
> > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > 10- Advanced filtering
> > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
user
> > has his/her own UI settings
> > 14- E-mail checker
> > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > 19- Cell merge
> > 20- Powerful data import
> > 21- External database synch
> > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > 24- Field inheritance
> > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
parents.
> > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > 30- Time counters
> > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > and much more...
> >
> > And coming soon:
> > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
(task
> > dependancy, etc)
> > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> >
> > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is
now
> > my main software for my consulting activities including billing.
It
> > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
months.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
> >
> > Pierre
> >
>
hustoniii
2007-05-28 22:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and name one
of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name suggests
it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it to the
Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but why tie it
to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things Microsoft, and
lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without the add-
on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer to
catching the prospective users.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to Ecco
> Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not an
> add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate reports
> with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> Office you have:
>
> 1- User defined functions
> 2- Field calculations
> 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> show/hide hierarchy)
> 5- Multiple parents
> 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> 7- Office integration
> 8- Item Color coding
> 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> 10- Advanced filtering
> 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
user
> has his/her own UI settings
> 14- E-mail checker
> 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> 17- Multi-column select/export
> 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> 19- Cell merge
> 20- Powerful data import
> 21- External database synch
> 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> 24- Field inheritance
> 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in parents.
> Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> 30- Time counters
> 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> and much more...
>
> And coming soon:
> 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
(task
> dependancy, etc)
> 2- Hyperlinks between database items
>
> This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is now
> my main software for my consulting activities including billing. It
> is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2 months.
>
> I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
>
> Pierre
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-28 22:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
suggestion, is welcomed!

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "hustoniii" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and name
one
> of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name
suggests
> it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it to the
> Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but why tie
it
> to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things Microsoft,
and
> lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without the add-
> on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer to
> catching the prospective users.
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to
Ecco
> > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not
an
> > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
reports
> > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> > Office you have:
> >
> > 1- User defined functions
> > 2- Field calculations
> > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> > show/hide hierarchy)
> > 5- Multiple parents
> > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > 7- Office integration
> > 8- Item Color coding
> > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > 10- Advanced filtering
> > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
> user
> > has his/her own UI settings
> > 14- E-mail checker
> > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > 19- Cell merge
> > 20- Powerful data import
> > 21- External database synch
> > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > 24- Field inheritance
> > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
parents.
> > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > 30- Time counters
> > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > and much more...
> >
> > And coming soon:
> > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
> (task
> > dependancy, etc)
> > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> >
> > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is
now
> > my main software for my consulting activities including billing.
It
> > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
months.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
> >
> > Pierre
> >
>
Craig R. Saunders
2007-05-28 23:28:54 UTC
Permalink
You should also drop the "SQL" as that identifies it as something
related to or connected with a SQL-based database engine. Including
"SQL" in the name will cause many folks to ignore it because they aren't
interested in a datatbase or database tool. (This is essentially the
same advice as leaving off "for office".)

Unless you really only want to market to people who have or use
SQL-based databases... :-)

Why not "PPLNotes" or converting from the phonetic of that to
"PeopleNotes" ? That's a unique name that you can spin in lots of ways...

BTW, if this advice is of any use, in exchange, I would appreciate a
beta-copy so that I could help you test it. :-)

Cheers,
Craig

Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> suggestion, is welcomed!
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "hustoniii" <***@...> wrote:
> >
> > Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and name
> one
> > of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name
> suggests
> > it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it to the
> > Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but why tie
> it
> > to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things Microsoft,
> and
> > lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without the add-
> > on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer to
> > catching the prospective users.
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to
> Ecco
> > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not
> an
> > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> reports
> > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> > > Office you have:
> > >
> > > 1- User defined functions
> > > 2- Field calculations
> > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > 7- Office integration
> > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
> > user
> > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML Editor
> > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > 19- Cell merge
> > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > 21- External database synch
> > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> parents.
> > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > 30- Time counters
> > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > and much more...
> > >
> > > And coming soon:
> > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
> > (task
> > > dependancy, etc)
> > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > >
> > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is
> now
> > > my main software for my consulting activities including billing.
> It
> > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
> months.
> > >
> > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is available.
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> >
>
>
Chris Thompson
2007-05-29 00:00:28 UTC
Permalink
I strongly agree with this. By using the abbreviation "SQL", you'll
scare away both non-technical users *and* technical users. An
abbreviation that one isn't familiar with turns average people off,
and for someone who does understand and even knows SQL, my first
impulse is "why would I want to learn how to write SQL queries
against someone else's schema just to use a PIM?"

The word "Office" can be used appropriately however. I wouldn't use
"for Office", just "Office" as part of the name you choose. Consider
Pacific Edge Software's relatively popular product called "Project
Office." This is an enterprise project management tool that does
integrate with Microsoft Project but doesn't require it. I think
it's a good name. It conveys what it does, plus they must pick up
web searchers who search for "project" and "office". (Note also that
they were successful registering "Project Office" as a registered
trademark, despite the existence of Microsoft Project.) One name for
SQLNotes that I like is "Task Office" though perhaps that emphasizes
task management over outlining.

In any case, congratulations on bringing a major software project so
far along from birth. This is a substantial accomplishment and you
deserve to be proud of your nascent baby.

-- Chris


On 28-May-07, at 5:28 PM, Craig R. Saunders wrote:

> You should also drop the "SQL" as that identifies it as something
> related to or connected with a SQL-based database engine. Including
> "SQL" in the name will cause many folks to ignore it because they
> aren't
> interested in a datatbase or database tool. (This is essentially the
> same advice as leaving off "for office".)
>
> Unless you really only want to market to people who have or use
> SQL-based databases... :-)
>
> Why not "PPLNotes" or converting from the phonetic of that to
> "PeopleNotes" ? That's a unique name that you can spin in lots of
> ways...
>
> BTW, if this advice is of any use, in exchange, I would appreciate a
> beta-copy so that I could help you test it. :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > suggestion, is welcomed!
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "hustoniii" <***@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and name
> > one
> > > of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name
> > suggests
> > > it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it to the
> > > Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but why tie
> > it
> > > to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things Microsoft,
> > and
> > > lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without the
> add-
> > > on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer to
> > > catching the prospective users.
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a successor to
> > Ecco
> > > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e. not
> > an
> > > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft Office
> > > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> > reports
> > > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes for
> > > > Office you have:
> > > >
> > > > 1- User defined functions
> > > > 2- Field calculations
> > > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context parents,
> > > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > > 7- Office integration
> > > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and each
> > > user
> > > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with HTML
> Editor
> > > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > > 19- Cell merge
> > > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > > 21- External database synch
> > > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> > parents.
> > > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > > 30- Time counters
> > > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > > and much more...
> > > >
> > > > And coming soon:
> > > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project management
> > > (task
> > > > dependancy, etc)
> > > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > > >
> > > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested by
> > > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications. It is
> > now
> > > > my main software for my consulting activities including billing.
> > It
> > > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
> > months.
> > > >
> > > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
> available.
> > > >
> > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-29 00:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

Thanks for these suggestions and opinions. The idea behind the name
SQLNotes for Office was to link 3 well respected software: SQL
Server, Lotus Notes and Microsoft Office.

I wanted to get away from the idea that PIM database are second
order, less quality, closed databases. PIMs are often thought of as
toy software in enterprises. Also, SQL implies that complex queries
(with AND, OR, etc) are possible, something lacking in many PIM's
(including Ecco). Lotus Notes on the other hand can handle any piece
of information, has outlining, etc. As for Office, it is the most
widely used office software. I wanted to re-assure IT techs (which
are often a bit paranoid) that this is compatible with Microsoft
Office.

I'm aiming this software at individual/professionals/consultants
working alone AND enterprises that want a serious but flexible
database system, allowing multi-user access.


Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Chris Thompson <***@...>
wrote:
>
> I strongly agree with this. By using the abbreviation "SQL",
you'll
> scare away both non-technical users *and* technical users. An
> abbreviation that one isn't familiar with turns average people
off,
> and for someone who does understand and even knows SQL, my first
> impulse is "why would I want to learn how to write SQL queries
> against someone else's schema just to use a PIM?"
>
> The word "Office" can be used appropriately however. I wouldn't
use
> "for Office", just "Office" as part of the name you choose.
Consider
> Pacific Edge Software's relatively popular product called "Project
> Office." This is an enterprise project management tool that does
> integrate with Microsoft Project but doesn't require it. I think
> it's a good name. It conveys what it does, plus they must pick up
> web searchers who search for "project" and "office". (Note also
that
> they were successful registering "Project Office" as a registered
> trademark, despite the existence of Microsoft Project.) One name
for
> SQLNotes that I like is "Task Office" though perhaps that
emphasizes
> task management over outlining.
>
> In any case, congratulations on bringing a major software project
so
> far along from birth. This is a substantial accomplishment and
you
> deserve to be proud of your nascent baby.
>
> -- Chris
>
>
> On 28-May-07, at 5:28 PM, Craig R. Saunders wrote:
>
> > You should also drop the "SQL" as that identifies it as something
> > related to or connected with a SQL-based database engine.
Including
> > "SQL" in the name will cause many folks to ignore it because
they
> > aren't
> > interested in a datatbase or database tool. (This is essentially
the
> > same advice as leaving off "for office".)
> >
> > Unless you really only want to market to people who have or use
> > SQL-based databases... :-)
> >
> > Why not "PPLNotes" or converting from the phonetic of that to
> > "PeopleNotes" ? That's a unique name that you can spin in lots
of
> > ways...
> >
> > BTW, if this advice is of any use, in exchange, I would
appreciate a
> > beta-copy so that I could help you test it. :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Craig
> >
> > Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> > > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > > suggestion, is welcomed!
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "hustoniii" <hsiii@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and
name
> > > one
> > > > of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name
> > > suggests
> > > > it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it
to the
> > > > Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but why
tie
> > > it
> > > > to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things
Microsoft,
> > > and
> > > > lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without
the
> > add-
> > > > on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer
to
> > > > catching the prospective users.
> > > >
> > > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a
successor to
> > > Ecco
> > > > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e.
not
> > > an
> > > > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft
Office
> > > > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> > > reports
> > > > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes
for
> > > > > Office you have:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1- User defined functions
> > > > > 2- Field calculations
> > > > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context
parents,
> > > > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > > > 7- Office integration
> > > > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and
each
> > > > user
> > > > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with
HTML
> > Editor
> > > > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > > > 19- Cell merge
> > > > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > > > 21- External database synch
> > > > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> > > parents.
> > > > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > > > 30- Time counters
> > > > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > > > and much more...
> > > > >
> > > > > And coming soon:
> > > > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project
management
> > > > (task
> > > > > dependancy, etc)
> > > > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > > > >
> > > > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested
by
> > > > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications.
It is
> > > now
> > > > > my main software for my consulting activities including
billing.
> > > It
> > > > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
> > > months.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
> > available.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pierre
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
hustoniii
2007-05-29 02:21:52 UTC
Permalink
@FirstThought
dbOffice
Brainiac
UKnow
FreeThot
BrainAid
HY (HelpYourself)
AnswerMeister
BrainSync
WhatsNext
MyBrain
ThinkIt
OneAnna
TheNow
SmartThot
ThotMaster

Few thots; if you use one, send me a copy.


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for these suggestions and opinions. The idea behind the name
> SQLNotes for Office was to link 3 well respected software: SQL
> Server, Lotus Notes and Microsoft Office.
>
> I wanted to get away from the idea that PIM database are second
> order, less quality, closed databases. PIMs are often thought of as
> toy software in enterprises. Also, SQL implies that complex queries
> (with AND, OR, etc) are possible, something lacking in many PIM's
> (including Ecco). Lotus Notes on the other hand can handle any piece
> of information, has outlining, etc. As for Office, it is the most
> widely used office software. I wanted to re-assure IT techs (which
> are often a bit paranoid) that this is compatible with Microsoft
> Office.
>
> I'm aiming this software at individual/professionals/consultants
> working alone AND enterprises that want a serious but flexible
> database system, allowing multi-user access.
>
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I strongly agree with this. By using the abbreviation "SQL",
> you'll
> > scare away both non-technical users *and* technical users. An
> > abbreviation that one isn't familiar with turns average people
> off,
> > and for someone who does understand and even knows SQL, my first
> > impulse is "why would I want to learn how to write SQL queries
> > against someone else's schema just to use a PIM?"
> >
> > The word "Office" can be used appropriately however. I wouldn't
> use
> > "for Office", just "Office" as part of the name you choose.
> Consider
> > Pacific Edge Software's relatively popular product called
"Project
> > Office." This is an enterprise project management tool that does
> > integrate with Microsoft Project but doesn't require it. I think
> > it's a good name. It conveys what it does, plus they must pick
up
> > web searchers who search for "project" and "office". (Note also
> that
> > they were successful registering "Project Office" as a registered
> > trademark, despite the existence of Microsoft Project.) One name
> for
> > SQLNotes that I like is "Task Office" though perhaps that
> emphasizes
> > task management over outlining.
> >
> > In any case, congratulations on bringing a major software project
> so
> > far along from birth. This is a substantial accomplishment and
> you
> > deserve to be proud of your nascent baby.
> >
> > -- Chris
> >
> >
> > On 28-May-07, at 5:28 PM, Craig R. Saunders wrote:
> >
> > > You should also drop the "SQL" as that identifies it as something
> > > related to or connected with a SQL-based database engine.
> Including
> > > "SQL" in the name will cause many folks to ignore it because
> they
> > > aren't
> > > interested in a datatbase or database tool. (This is essentially
> the
> > > same advice as leaving off "for office".)
> > >
> > > Unless you really only want to market to people who have or use
> > > SQL-based databases... :-)
> > >
> > > Why not "PPLNotes" or converting from the phonetic of that to
> > > "PeopleNotes" ? That's a unique name that you can spin in lots
> of
> > > ways...
> > >
> > > BTW, if this advice is of any use, in exchange, I would
> appreciate a
> > > beta-copy so that I could help you test it. :-)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > > > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that
I'm
> > > > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > > > suggestion, is welcomed!
> > > >
> > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "hustoniii" <hsiii@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and
> name
> > > > one
> > > > > of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name
> > > > suggests
> > > > > it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it
> to the
> > > > > Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but
why
> tie
> > > > it
> > > > > to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things
> Microsoft,
> > > > and
> > > > > lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without
> the
> > > add-
> > > > > on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer
> to
> > > > > catching the prospective users.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <mailto:eccopro%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a
> successor to
> > > > Ecco
> > > > > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable
(i.e.
> not
> > > > an
> > > > > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft
> Office
> > > > > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word,
generate
> > > > reports
> > > > > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With
SQLNotes
> for
> > > > > > Office you have:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1- User defined functions
> > > > > > 2- Field calculations
> > > > > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > > > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context
> parents,
> > > > > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > > > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > > > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > > > > 7- Office integration
> > > > > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > > > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > > > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > > > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > > > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > > > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located
and
> each
> > > > > user
> > > > > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > > > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > > > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > > > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with
> HTML
> > > Editor
> > > > > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > > > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > > > > 19- Cell merge
> > > > > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > > > > 21- External database synch
> > > > > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > > > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > > > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > > > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > > > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > > > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > > > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > > > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or
in
> > > > parents.
> > > > > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > > > > 30- Time counters
> > > > > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > > > > and much more...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And coming soon:
> > > > > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project
> management
> > > > > (task
> > > > > > dependancy, etc)
> > > > > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been
tested
> by
> > > > > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications.
> It is
> > > > now
> > > > > > my main software for my consulting activities including
> billing.
> > > > It
> > > > > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within
2
> > > > months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
> > > available.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pierre
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Mauibro
2007-05-29 04:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Queries plus multi user, hmmmm.

QueryUs?


On 5/28/07, Pierre Paul Landry <ppl32-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for these suggestions and opinions. The idea behind the name
> SQLNotes for Office was to link 3 well respected software: SQL
> Server, Lotus Notes and Microsoft Office.
>
> I wanted to get away from the idea that PIM database are second
> order, less quality, closed databases. PIMs are often thought of as
> toy software in enterprises. Also, SQL implies that complex queries
> (with AND, OR, etc) are possible, something lacking in many PIM's
> (including Ecco). Lotus Notes on the other hand can handle any piece
> of information, has outlining, etc. As for Office, it is the most
> widely used office software. I wanted to re-assure IT techs (which
> are often a bit paranoid) that this is compatible with Microsoft
> Office.
>
> I'm aiming this software at individual/professionals/consultants
> working alone AND enterprises that want a serious but flexible
> database system, allowing multi-user access.
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <eccopro%40yahoogroups.com>, Chris Thompson
> <***@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I strongly agree with this. By using the abbreviation "SQL",
> you'll
> > scare away both non-technical users *and* technical users. An
> > abbreviation that one isn't familiar with turns average people
> off,
> > and for someone who does understand and even knows SQL, my first
> > impulse is "why would I want to learn how to write SQL queries
> > against someone else's schema just to use a PIM?"
> >
> > The word "Office" can be used appropriately however. I wouldn't
> use
> > "for Office", just "Office" as part of the name you choose.
> Consider
> > Pacific Edge Software's relatively popular product called "Project
> > Office." This is an enterprise project management tool that does
> > integrate with Microsoft Project but doesn't require it. I think
> > it's a good name. It conveys what it does, plus they must pick up
> > web searchers who search for "project" and "office". (Note also
> that
> > they were successful registering "Project Office" as a registered
> > trademark, despite the existence of Microsoft Project.) One name
> for
> > SQLNotes that I like is "Task Office" though perhaps that
> emphasizes
> > task management over outlining.
> >
> > In any case, congratulations on bringing a major software project
> so
> > far along from birth. This is a substantial accomplishment and
> you
> > deserve to be proud of your nascent baby.
> >
> > -- Chris
> >
> >
> > On 28-May-07, at 5:28 PM, Craig R. Saunders wrote:
> >
> > > You should also drop the "SQL" as that identifies it as something
> > > related to or connected with a SQL-based database engine.
> Including
> > > "SQL" in the name will cause many folks to ignore it because
> they
> > > aren't
> > > interested in a datatbase or database tool. (This is essentially
> the
> > > same advice as leaving off "for office".)
> > >
> > > Unless you really only want to market to people who have or use
> > > SQL-based databases... :-)
> > >
> > > Why not "PPLNotes" or converting from the phonetic of that to
> > > "PeopleNotes" ? That's a unique name that you can spin in lots
> of
> > > ways...
> > >
> > > BTW, if this advice is of any use, in exchange, I would
> appreciate a
> > > beta-copy so that I could help you test it. :-)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > > > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> > > > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > > > suggestion, is welcomed!
> > > >
> > > > Pierre
> > > >
> > > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <eccopro%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> eccopro% <eccopro%25>
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "hustoniii" <hsiii@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Marketing suggestion: make two versions of the program, and
> name
> > > > one
> > > > > of them something other than "SQLNotes for Office." The name
> > > > suggests
> > > > > it's not a standalone program, eventhough it is; it ties it
> to the
> > > > > Microsoft Suite (which is fine that it works with it, but why
> tie
> > > > it
> > > > > to it--you'll lose those with a hatred for all things
> Microsoft,
> > > > and
> > > > > lose those who think Microsoft Office is sufficient without
> the
> > > add-
> > > > > on). PowerPIM, or something similar, would come a lot closer
> to
> > > > > catching the prospective users.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org <eccopro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
> eccopro% <eccopro%25>
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NeoTech Systems is currently working on building a
> successor to
> > > > Ecco
> > > > > > Pro: SQLNotes for Office. It is a complete executable (i.e.
> not
> > > > an
> > > > > > add-on) but which integrates perfectly with the Microsoft
> Office
> > > > > > suite. (view data with Excel, mail-merge with Word, generate
> > > > reports
> > > > > > with Access, batch e-mail with Outlook, etc). With SQLNotes
> for
> > > > > > Office you have:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1- User defined functions
> > > > > > 2- Field calculations
> > > > > > 3- Hierarchy calculations (sums, averages, etc)
> > > > > > 4- More flexible display (including show/hide context
> parents,
> > > > > > show/hide hierarchy)
> > > > > > 5- Multiple parents
> > > > > > 6- Pivot tables (exportable to databound Excel pivot table)
> > > > > > 7- Office integration
> > > > > > 8- Item Color coding
> > > > > > 9- Field auto-assign (Ecco has item auto-assign only)
> > > > > > 10- Advanced filtering
> > > > > > 11- Advanced search (with and/or, etc)
> > > > > > 12- Modern UI, customizable, Tabbed workspace
> > > > > > 13- Split database mode where data is centrally located and
> each
> > > > > user
> > > > > > has his/her own UI settings
> > > > > > 14- E-mail checker
> > > > > > 15- Themes support (Office 2003, Office 2007)
> > > > > > 16- One pane outliner (as Ecco) or 2 pane outline with
> HTML
> > > Editor
> > > > > > 17- Multi-column select/export
> > > > > > 18- Flexible HTML export with working expand buttons
> > > > > > 19- Cell merge
> > > > > > 20- Powerful data import
> > > > > > 21- External database synch
> > > > > > 22- Detailed item and field info (date modified, by who)
> > > > > > 23- Automatic pop-up lists (based on content)
> > > > > > 24- Field inheritance
> > > > > > 25- View multi-field sorts (Ecco does not remember sorts)
> > > > > > 26- Multilingual (at present French and English)
> > > > > > 27- Selectable word-wrap in all fields, not just the Item
> > > > > > 28- File-linking through drag-drop
> > > > > > 29- Phone number recognition in all fields in the item or in
> > > > parents.
> > > > > > Windows phone dialing rules (TAPI)
> > > > > > 30- Time counters
> > > > > > 31- Hyperlinks to external files and web pages
> > > > > > and much more...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And coming soon:
> > > > > > 1- Fully functional Gantt chart for advanced project
> management
> > > > > (task
> > > > > > dependancy, etc)
> > > > > > 2- Hyperlinks between database items
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This project was started 3.5 years ago and has been tested
> by
> > > > > > numerous groups, using it for very different applications.
> It is
> > > > now
> > > > > > my main software for my consulting activities including
> billing.
> > > > It
> > > > > > is not vaporware and an official release is planned within 2
> > > > months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll keep you posted when web-site and documentation is
> > > available.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pierre
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
Don Johnson
2007-05-29 07:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Well, talk of an ecco-like PIM is interesting, and if it actually
becomes more than talk, it might be interesting to check out...

But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off topic
at this point??

A reminder - the front page of our list:

>ECCO PRO, the Personal Information Manager with the most awards in
>history, brings together your contacts, calendar, appointments,
>tasks and projects in one integrated, customizable application. This
>amazing piece of software is supported worldwide by a 3000+ member
>strong User Group. Members and moderators are geared to help you
>with any EccoPro related question, may it be in regard to download
>options, network installations or templates on how to use EccoPro in
>the most efficient way.
>
>According to a recent poll a user majority recommends the post
>erasure of the following message types:
>
>1) spam [trash advertisement]
>2) trolling [efforts to "promote" other lists or forums]
>3) personal attacks and berating of other posters.
>
>You also agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous,
>hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented material. Doing so may lead
>to being immediately banned. You acknowledge that the list owners
>and moderators have the right to remove or edit any topic of the
>aforementioned kind at any time should they see fit.
>
>You also agree not to post commercial messages or solicit list
>members for your services by posting to contact you privately.
>Members are free to add links and/or a tagline explaining their
>profession or service in their signature.


Regards,
Pastor Don Johnson, Jer. 33.3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grace Baptist Church of Victoria (Independent)
2731 Matson Rd, Victoria, BC V9B 4M5
ch. 250.474.7283 hm. 250.474.7187
fx. 250.474.2146 cell. 250.889.9789
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
brjlk
2007-05-29 13:09:42 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <***@...> wrote:
> But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off topic
> at this point??

Hi Pastor,
I have seen so many well intentioned projects about reviving or
replacing ecco that never saw the day.

I can safely say it is a perilous endeavour that is not guaranteed to
succeed.

But Pierre's project looks real.

So, let's put all chances on his side with our encouragement, positive
criticism and the hospitality of this forum.

John
r634718
2007-05-29 20:13:33 UTC
Permalink
Listen...if this is real and turns out to be as good as portrayed,
I'll be the first to say wow. As a matter of fact, if it is actually
a viable Ecco successor, I'll be the first customer.

The best way to convince me is to let me see it. Short of that,
whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant. I retain my right to
be cautiously skeptical after all the years of false starts. I'll
reserve judgment, one way or the other, until it is available for me
to evaluate.

Making me eat my skepticism should be at least as much a motivator as
anything else I could say!

This project is 3 1/2 years old? Has it been discussed here before?
It may well have been, but I am not aware of it since I have had long
periods away from this forum since its inception.

If it has not been discussed here in all of that time, why not? That
would seem very odd that it would just appear suddenly like this.

As I said before... I am willing to be made a believer! Of course I
wish success to anyone who can create a viable challenger to Ecco.
It has not happened in 10 years. I just haven't seen it yet so I
remain skeptical until shown otherwise.

We will all know shortly if my skepticism is unfounded. :D

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <***@...> wrote:
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <dcsj@> wrote:
> > But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off
topic
> > at this point??
>
> Hi Pastor,
> I have seen so many well intentioned projects about reviving or
> replacing ecco that never saw the day.
>
> I can safely say it is a perilous endeavour that is not guaranteed
to
> succeed.
>
> But Pierre's project looks real.
>
> So, let's put all chances on his side with our encouragement,
positive
> criticism and the hospitality of this forum.
>
> John
>
dcherniack
2007-05-29 20:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Screen shots would help to dissuade any doubt :)


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Listen...if this is real and turns out to be as good as portrayed,
> I'll be the first to say wow. As a matter of fact, if it is actually
> a viable Ecco successor, I'll be the first customer.
>
> The best way to convince me is to let me see it. Short of that,
> whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant. I retain my right to
> be cautiously skeptical after all the years of false starts. I'll
> reserve judgment, one way or the other, until it is available for me
> to evaluate.
>
> Making me eat my skepticism should be at least as much a motivator as
> anything else I could say!
>
> This project is 3 1/2 years old? Has it been discussed here before?
> It may well have been, but I am not aware of it since I have had long
> periods away from this forum since its inception.
>
> If it has not been discussed here in all of that time, why not? That
> would seem very odd that it would just appear suddenly like this.
>
> As I said before... I am willing to be made a believer! Of course I
> wish success to anyone who can create a viable challenger to Ecco.
> It has not happened in 10 years. I just haven't seen it yet so I
> remain skeptical until shown otherwise.
>
> We will all know shortly if my skepticism is unfounded. :D
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <brjlk@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <dcsj@> wrote:
> > > But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off
> topic
> > > at this point??
> >
> > Hi Pastor,
> > I have seen so many well intentioned projects about reviving or
> > replacing ecco that never saw the day.
> >
> > I can safely say it is a perilous endeavour that is not guaranteed
> to
> > succeed.
> >
> > But Pierre's project looks real.
> >
> > So, let's put all chances on his side with our encouragement,
> positive
> > criticism and the hospitality of this forum.
> >
> > John
> >
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-29 20:46:43 UTC
Permalink
HI,

SQLNotes has been discussed a few times in the last 2-4 months in
this and the other forum. Nothing before that. I guess some history
is required here.

I've always been interested in information management. Had numerous
ideas of ways to link info. This was mostly in the pre-web world
times. Then came Ecco in 1993 which I bought immediately. It did not
meet all my objectives for effective information management but it
went a good way.

I kept using it when dev. stopped, like all of us, mostly because
nothing else was available that was as simple, flexible, etc. In
2003, took a 6 month leave from my consulting activities (newborn
girl) and started seriously building it.

Since information management is everywhere, I managed to get a few of
my customers to fund it, use it for various of their information
management applications. Effectively having private beta testers.

I also dev. regular databases, so could recommend it when it was more
suited, due to it's greater flexibility. While the main database
infrastructure and tree-grid like editing was in place and tested, I
started working on the UI, to make it Office-like class
(customizable, docking panels, etc.)

I also use SQLNotes for my own consulting activities, so often added
feasures that as they were needed.

But all this takes time. It is difficult to decide when to call it a
day. A software is really never finished and my list of todos is
still long. However, time is coming soon for the first release. I'm
currently working on custom reports. I'll then clean up various loose-
ends and create the web site (www.sqlnotes.net: nothing yet) for
distribution.

Dev. will of course continue after the first release.

Pierre


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Listen...if this is real and turns out to be as good as portrayed,
> I'll be the first to say wow. As a matter of fact, if it is
actually
> a viable Ecco successor, I'll be the first customer.
>
> The best way to convince me is to let me see it. Short of that,
> whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant. I retain my right to
> be cautiously skeptical after all the years of false starts. I'll
> reserve judgment, one way or the other, until it is available for
me
> to evaluate.
>
> Making me eat my skepticism should be at least as much a motivator
as
> anything else I could say!
>
> This project is 3 1/2 years old? Has it been discussed here
before?
> It may well have been, but I am not aware of it since I have had
long
> periods away from this forum since its inception.
>
> If it has not been discussed here in all of that time, why not?
That
> would seem very odd that it would just appear suddenly like this.
>
> As I said before... I am willing to be made a believer! Of course I
> wish success to anyone who can create a viable challenger to Ecco.
> It has not happened in 10 years. I just haven't seen it yet so I
> remain skeptical until shown otherwise.
>
> We will all know shortly if my skepticism is unfounded. :D
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <brjlk@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <dcsj@> wrote:
> > > But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off
> topic
> > > at this point??
> >
> > Hi Pastor,
> > I have seen so many well intentioned projects about reviving or
> > replacing ecco that never saw the day.
> >
> > I can safely say it is a perilous endeavour that is not
guaranteed
> to
> > succeed.
> >
> > But Pierre's project looks real.
> >
> > So, let's put all chances on his side with our encouragement,
> positive
> > criticism and the hospitality of this forum.
> >
> > John
> >
>
r634718
2007-05-30 13:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Sounds good to me Pierre. Looking forward to it.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> SQLNotes has been discussed a few times in the last 2-4 months in
> this and the other forum. Nothing before that. I guess some history
> is required here.
>
> I've always been interested in information management. Had numerous
> ideas of ways to link info. This was mostly in the pre-web world
> times. Then came Ecco in 1993 which I bought immediately. It did
not
> meet all my objectives for effective information management but it
> went a good way.
>
> I kept using it when dev. stopped, like all of us, mostly because
> nothing else was available that was as simple, flexible, etc. In
> 2003, took a 6 month leave from my consulting activities (newborn
> girl) and started seriously building it.
>
> Since information management is everywhere, I managed to get a few
of
> my customers to fund it, use it for various of their information
> management applications. Effectively having private beta testers.
>
> I also dev. regular databases, so could recommend it when it was
more
> suited, due to it's greater flexibility. While the main database
> infrastructure and tree-grid like editing was in place and tested,
I
> started working on the UI, to make it Office-like class
> (customizable, docking panels, etc.)
>
> I also use SQLNotes for my own consulting activities, so often
added
> feasures that as they were needed.
>
> But all this takes time. It is difficult to decide when to call it
a
> day. A software is really never finished and my list of todos is
> still long. However, time is coming soon for the first release. I'm
> currently working on custom reports. I'll then clean up various
loose-
> ends and create the web site (www.sqlnotes.net: nothing yet) for
> distribution.
>
> Dev. will of course continue after the first release.
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <r634718@> wrote:
> >
> > Listen...if this is real and turns out to be as good as
portrayed,
> > I'll be the first to say wow. As a matter of fact, if it is
> actually
> > a viable Ecco successor, I'll be the first customer.
> >
> > The best way to convince me is to let me see it. Short of that,
> > whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant. I retain my right
to
> > be cautiously skeptical after all the years of false starts.
I'll
> > reserve judgment, one way or the other, until it is available for
> me
> > to evaluate.
> >
> > Making me eat my skepticism should be at least as much a
motivator
> as
> > anything else I could say!
> >
> > This project is 3 1/2 years old? Has it been discussed here
> before?
> > It may well have been, but I am not aware of it since I have had
> long
> > periods away from this forum since its inception.
> >
> > If it has not been discussed here in all of that time, why not?
> That
> > would seem very odd that it would just appear suddenly like this.
> >
> > As I said before... I am willing to be made a believer! Of course
I
> > wish success to anyone who can create a viable challenger to
Ecco.
> > It has not happened in 10 years. I just haven't seen it yet so I
> > remain skeptical until shown otherwise.
> >
> > We will all know shortly if my skepticism is unfounded. :D
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <brjlk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <dcsj@> wrote:
> > > > But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit
off
> > topic
> > > > at this point??
> > >
> > > Hi Pastor,
> > > I have seen so many well intentioned projects about reviving or
> > > replacing ecco that never saw the day.
> > >
> > > I can safely say it is a perilous endeavour that is not
> guaranteed
> > to
> > > succeed.
> > >
> > > But Pierre's project looks real.
> > >
> > > So, let's put all chances on his side with our encouragement,
> > positive
> > > criticism and the hospitality of this forum.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
>
Jeff Sonnabend
2007-05-30 13:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Pierre -

You've said that the DB engine is Access (IIRC), and you've suggested
that you'll be encouraging direct access to data. Can you provide us
with a summary of the data structure?

- Jeff

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> SQLNotes has been discussed a few times in the last 2-4 months in
> this and the other forum. Nothing before that. I guess some history
> is required here.
>
> I've always been interested in information management. Had numerous
> ideas of ways to link info. This was mostly in the pre-web world
> times. Then came Ecco in 1993 which I bought immediately. It did not
> meet all my objectives for effective information management but it
> went a good way.
>
> I kept using it when dev. stopped, like all of us, mostly because
> nothing else was available that was as simple, flexible, etc. In
> 2003, took a 6 month leave from my consulting activities (newborn
> girl) and started seriously building it.
>
> Since information management is everywhere, I managed to get a few of
> my customers to fund it, use it for various of their information
> management applications. Effectively having private beta testers.
>
> I also dev. regular databases, so could recommend it when it was more
> suited, due to it's greater flexibility. While the main database
> infrastructure and tree-grid like editing was in place and tested, I
> started working on the UI, to make it Office-like class
> (customizable, docking panels, etc.)
>
> I also use SQLNotes for my own consulting activities, so often added
> feasures that as they were needed.
>
> But all this takes time. It is difficult to decide when to call it a
> day. A software is really never finished and my list of todos is
> still long. However, time is coming soon for the first release. I'm
> currently working on custom reports. I'll then clean up various loose-
> ends and create the web site (www.sqlnotes.net: nothing yet) for
> distribution.
>
> Dev. will of course continue after the first release.
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <r634718@> wrote:
> >
> > Listen...if this is real and turns out to be as good as portrayed,
> > I'll be the first to say wow. As a matter of fact, if it is
> actually
> > a viable Ecco successor, I'll be the first customer.
> >
> > The best way to convince me is to let me see it. Short of that,
> > whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant. I retain my right to
> > be cautiously skeptical after all the years of false starts. I'll
> > reserve judgment, one way or the other, until it is available for
> me
> > to evaluate.
> >
> > Making me eat my skepticism should be at least as much a motivator
> as
> > anything else I could say!
> >
> > This project is 3 1/2 years old? Has it been discussed here
> before?
> > It may well have been, but I am not aware of it since I have had
> long
> > periods away from this forum since its inception.
> >
> > If it has not been discussed here in all of that time, why not?
> That
> > would seem very odd that it would just appear suddenly like this.
> >
> > As I said before... I am willing to be made a believer! Of course I
> > wish success to anyone who can create a viable challenger to Ecco.
> > It has not happened in 10 years. I just haven't seen it yet so I
> > remain skeptical until shown otherwise.
> >
> > We will all know shortly if my skepticism is unfounded. :D
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <brjlk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <dcsj@> wrote:
> > > > But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off
> > topic
> > > > at this point??
> > >
> > > Hi Pastor,
> > > I have seen so many well intentioned projects about reviving or
> > > replacing ecco that never saw the day.
> > >
> > > I can safely say it is a perilous endeavour that is not
> guaranteed
> > to
> > > succeed.
> > >
> > > But Pierre's project looks real.
> > >
> > > So, let's put all chances on his side with our encouragement,
> > positive
> > > criticism and the hospitality of this forum.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-30 14:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Yes certainly, I've got nothing to hide (in fact can't hide, cause
anyone with Access knowledge will be able to see how it's done).

There are 4 data tables (one for each data types Number, Date, Yes/no
and text) plus field definition, view definition and form definition
tables and sub-tables for each of these. Finally there are the links
table which handles the hierarchy.

Fields in SQLNotes are actually queries against one of the data
tables. Hence, one can create new SQLNotes fields without actually
creating a real table field and can also overcome the 255 max field
count in Access.

Views (Notepads in Ecco) are also queries. Queries linking SQLNotes
fields (which are themselves queries). Since views are queries, they
are visible to any ODBC enabled app (Just about all database, word-
processing and spreadsheet apps nowadays).

That summarizes the data structure. The real work, done through code,
is to manage the data, present it to the user, handle equations, etc.
That part is too long to explain.

Have a great day

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Pierre -
>
> You've said that the DB engine is Access (IIRC), and you've
suggested
> that you'll be encouraging direct access to data. Can you provide
us
> with a summary of the data structure?
>
> - Jeff
>
Jeff Sonnabend
2007-05-30 20:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Pierre -

Thanks for the info. Could you share at this time the actual table
structures?

I'm also curious about date fields. How do you handle recurring dates
and start/end times?

- Jeff

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Yes certainly, I've got nothing to hide (in fact can't hide, cause
> anyone with Access knowledge will be able to see how it's done).
>
> There are 4 data tables (one for each data types Number, Date, Yes/no
> and text) plus field definition, view definition and form definition
> tables and sub-tables for each of these. Finally there are the links
> table which handles the hierarchy.
>
> Fields in SQLNotes are actually queries against one of the data
> tables. Hence, one can create new SQLNotes fields without actually
> creating a real table field and can also overcome the 255 max field
> count in Access.
>
> Views (Notepads in Ecco) are also queries. Queries linking SQLNotes
> fields (which are themselves queries). Since views are queries, they
> are visible to any ODBC enabled app (Just about all database, word-
> processing and spreadsheet apps nowadays).
>
> That summarizes the data structure. The real work, done through code,
> is to manage the data, present it to the user, handle equations, etc.
> That part is too long to explain.
>
> Have a great day
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Pierre -
> >
> > You've said that the DB engine is Access (IIRC), and you've
> suggested
> > that you'll be encouraging direct access to data. Can you provide
> us
> > with a summary of the data structure?
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-30 22:05:34 UTC
Permalink
> I'm also curious about date fields. How do you handle recurring
dates and start/end times?
>
> - Jeff
>
Ah! recurring events, what an interesting subject. Recurring events
were also something I've thought quite a bit.

Ecco implements recurring events in individual date fields. They are
virtual items. Other s/w often implement it as virtual items but as
item characteristics, not as field one. This means that Ecco can have
more than one recurring event per item, other just 1.

Unless someone convinces me that multiple recurring events is a must,
it is much simpler to implement it at the item level, which is what
SQLNotes does.

On the subject of virtual vs real items. I've concluding that both
methods have their virtues and uses and that users should be able to
mix-match them. By that I mean, a single item with recurring
caracteristics which visually show up at many times. The other way is
to actually generate separate items for each events. Virtual items
are good for birthdays and the like but useless for meetings,
billable activities, bills, etc. So SQLNotes will (I say will cause
I'm working on it right now) will have both methods of recurring
events.

As for you question Jeff, both types are implemented as fields (each
of the recurring parameters stored as a field), actually a system
field, which is not modifiable by users.

As for Start/End times, they are stored in separate fields, to allow
for multi-day events and to facilitate queries. Users can choose what
field to use for start and end times, thus enabling multiple
calendars (more on this later if desired).

Pierre
Jeff Sonnabend
2007-05-31 00:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation details. How
about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)

- Jeff

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm also curious about date fields. How do you handle recurring
> dates and start/end times?
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> Ah! recurring events, what an interesting subject. Recurring events
> were also something I've thought quite a bit.
>
> Ecco implements recurring events in individual date fields. They are
> virtual items. Other s/w often implement it as virtual items but as
> item characteristics, not as field one. This means that Ecco can have
> more than one recurring event per item, other just 1.
>
> Unless someone convinces me that multiple recurring events is a must,
> it is much simpler to implement it at the item level, which is what
> SQLNotes does.
>
> On the subject of virtual vs real items. I've concluding that both
> methods have their virtues and uses and that users should be able to
> mix-match them. By that I mean, a single item with recurring
> caracteristics which visually show up at many times. The other way is
> to actually generate separate items for each events. Virtual items
> are good for birthdays and the like but useless for meetings,
> billable activities, bills, etc. So SQLNotes will (I say will cause
> I'm working on it right now) will have both methods of recurring
> events.
>
> As for you question Jeff, both types are implemented as fields (each
> of the recurring parameters stored as a field), actually a system
> field, which is not modifiable by users.
>
> As for Start/End times, they are stored in separate fields, to allow
> for multi-day events and to facilitate queries. Users can choose what
> field to use for start and end times, thus enabling multiple
> calendars (more on this later if desired).
>
> Pierre
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-31 03:02:08 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation details.
How
> about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
>
> - Jeff
>
Hi Jeff,

There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
ID ItemID FieldID Value Modified IDUser
315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03


Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields, so it
is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.

I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother other
Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space. Should I
open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion is
welcomed.

Pierre
Jeff Sonnabend
2007-05-31 12:51:23 UTC
Permalink
The "is it ok in this forum" question has been debated amongst the
moderators. Personally, I think there's no reason to move the
discussion yet, as many Ecco users would welcome news of a real (not
vaporware) Ecco replacement. Certainly, once the product is released,
a new forum would likely be better.

And as for practical considerations, there's not much Ecco-only
traffic here anyway, nor would the new forum have much SQLNotes traffic.

Last question. Why the delay in releasing a beta? If the product is
already in the hands of some of your clients, why not release it as an
unsupported beta now to get as much feedback as possible? (and you'll
never sell me on the "we'd receive too much information" reasoning).

Ok, one quick additional question. How do you generate ID's? You're
not using GUID's, so how do you plan on handling
synchronization/sharing of items, etc.?

- Jeff

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation details.
> How
> > about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> > structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> Hi Jeff,
>
> There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
> ID ItemID FieldID Value Modified IDUser
> 315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03
>
>
> Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields, so it
> is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.
>
> I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother other
> Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space. Should I
> open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion is
> welcomed.
>
> Pierre
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-31 16:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jeff,

> Last question. Why the delay in releasing a beta? If the product
is already in the hands of some of your clients, why not release it
as an unsupported beta now to get as much feedback as possible? (and
you'll never sell me on the "we'd receive too much information"
reasoning).

First, since this will be a commercial product, I must implement copy
protection. Second, I don't want to spend 90% of my time doing
product support just now, Dev. is important at this stage. I
understand and am encouraged by the enthousiam seen, so bear with me
just a little longer and you'll be able to have a real hands-on real
experience soon.

A few screen shots may be?

> Ok, one quick additional question. How do you generate ID's?
You're not using GUID's, so how do you plan on handling
synchronization/sharing of items, etc.?

Jet 4.0 has synchronization built-in. I have done preliminary test
and it seems to work fine. I will need to test it further before
releasing with synchronization enabled. Also, JET allows for many
types of synchronization. Some, including the more interesting "synch
through a synch file", requires some programming to implement. I've
got examples of how to do it, but have not tried yet.

Pierre

>
> - Jeff
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation
details.
> > How
> > > about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> > > structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
> > >
> > > - Jeff
> > >
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
> > ID ItemID FieldID Value Modified IDUser
> > 315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03
> >
> >
> > Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields, so
it
> > is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.
> >
> > I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother
other
> > Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space.
Should I
> > open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion
is
> > welcomed.
> >
> > Pierre
> >
>
Chris Thompson
2007-05-31 19:31:22 UTC
Permalink
For what it's worth, I agree with your decision not to release it
until it's ready. As someone who has released commercial software
before, I can vouch for the little tying up details (installers,
etc.) being an enormous amount of work. Also, even though each
individual incoming email from a beta tester seems insignificant to
an outsider, when you get a handful a day and have to process and
potentially investigate each one, what were once pebbles start to add
up to a daunting mountain that saps general development time and focus.

A handful of screenshots would undoubtedly please the list greatly
though.

-- Chris

On 31-May-07, at 10:11 AM, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> > Last question. Why the delay in releasing a beta? If the product
> is already in the hands of some of your clients, why not release it
> as an unsupported beta now to get as much feedback as possible? (and
> you'll never sell me on the "we'd receive too much information"
> reasoning).
>
> First, since this will be a commercial product, I must implement copy
> protection. Second, I don't want to spend 90% of my time doing
> product support just now, Dev. is important at this stage. I
> understand and am encouraged by the enthousiam seen, so bear with me
> just a little longer and you'll be able to have a real hands-on real
> experience soon.
>
> A few screen shots may be?
>
> > Ok, one quick additional question. How do you generate ID's?
> You're not using GUID's, so how do you plan on handling
> synchronization/sharing of items, etc.?
>
> Jet 4.0 has synchronization built-in. I have done preliminary test
> and it seems to work fine. I will need to test it further before
> releasing with synchronization enabled. Also, JET allows for many
> types of synchronization. Some, including the more interesting "synch
> through a synch file", requires some programming to implement. I've
> got examples of how to do it, but have not tried yet.
>
> Pierre
>
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation
> details.
> > > How
> > > > about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> > > > structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > - Jeff
> > > >
> > > Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > > There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
> > > ID ItemID FieldID Value Modified IDUser
> > > 315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03
> > >
> > >
> > > Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields, so
> it
> > > is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.
> > >
> > > I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother
> other
> > > Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space.
> Should I
> > > open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion
> is
> > > welcomed.
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> >
>
>
>
Jeff Sonnabend
2007-05-31 21:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the info. I thought the product was somewhat near ready
based on your statements about clients using it. I agree that you
shouldn't release anything before it's ready (I don't agree about copy
protection, which most commercial software doesn't use). Personally,
couldn't care less about screen shots.

On the synchronization point, I'm not sure I would rely on JET to do
that. First, I'm not sure how you do that in anywhere near real time
like Ecco. Second, it would be great to abstract out the DB back end,
in which case synchronization would require GUIDs (or something like
that) and timestamps in the tables themselves. Easy enough to implement.

You might take a look at the going-nowhere-quickly Chandler project.
There data model has some good points, including using GUIDs and
arbitrary attributes. FWIW, Outlook assigns GUIDs to items as well,
although they can change for an item if the item is moved (don't ask
me why the did *that*).

- Jeff

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> > Last question. Why the delay in releasing a beta? If the product
> is already in the hands of some of your clients, why not release it
> as an unsupported beta now to get as much feedback as possible? (and
> you'll never sell me on the "we'd receive too much information"
> reasoning).
>
> First, since this will be a commercial product, I must implement copy
> protection. Second, I don't want to spend 90% of my time doing
> product support just now, Dev. is important at this stage. I
> understand and am encouraged by the enthousiam seen, so bear with me
> just a little longer and you'll be able to have a real hands-on real
> experience soon.
>
> A few screen shots may be?
>
> > Ok, one quick additional question. How do you generate ID's?
> You're not using GUID's, so how do you plan on handling
> synchronization/sharing of items, etc.?
>
> Jet 4.0 has synchronization built-in. I have done preliminary test
> and it seems to work fine. I will need to test it further before
> releasing with synchronization enabled. Also, JET allows for many
> types of synchronization. Some, including the more interesting "synch
> through a synch file", requires some programming to implement. I've
> got examples of how to do it, but have not tried yet.
>
> Pierre
>
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation
> details.
> > > How
> > > > about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> > > > structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > - Jeff
> > > >
> > > Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > > There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
> > > ID ItemID FieldID Value Modified IDUser
> > > 315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03
> > >
> > >
> > > Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields, so
> it
> > > is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.
> > >
> > > I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother
> other
> > > Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space.
> Should I
> > > open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion
> is
> > > welcomed.
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> >
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-31 23:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jeff
>
> Thanks for the info. I thought the product was somewhat near ready
> based on your statements about clients using it. I agree that you
> shouldn't release anything before it's ready

The answer here is yes and no. It all depends on the feature set
desired. Every user of Ecco uses it in different ways. You use
certain features, I use others. The same is true with SQLNotes. It is
a versatile product. SQLNOtes current uses are more data and
information management and analysis and reporting. Calendars, alarms,
replicas, Palm synch are no requirements here. As such, SQLNotes
matches and in fact far exceeds Ecco capabilities. Consultants can
for example, get uptodate information of the hours spent on each
project, printout bills, manage projects with powerful agenda and
todo's, all color-coded based on user defined parameters, and updated
daily, Assign items to multiple parents, show/hide hierarchy and
context parents.

The other features are in Outlook, so my customers (who paid for a
part of the dev. cost) use Outlook.

Now, if the Ecco-like linear calendar exists in SQLNotes, the visual
outlook-like calendar is fairy straightforward to do. I have a
prototype working. Integration and test is the next step. The other
features will come in due time.

> On the synchronization point, I'm not sure I would rely on JET to do
> that. First, I'm not sure how you do that in anywhere near real
time like Ecco. Second, it would be great to abstract out the DB
back end, in which case synchronization would require GUIDs (or
something like that) and timestamps in the tables themselves. Easy
enough to implement.

One should not confuse networking and replication. Ecco uses the same
mecanism for both, so it is easy to confuse them. JET handles multi-
user access with real-time updates (and so does SQLNotes). So in
connected mode, there is no worry and it is fully tested in SQLNotes.
Data is centralized on a LAN server and each user has its own
distinct UI. In Ecco, one's notepads were often mangled by other
users because Ecco insisted on replicating more than just the actual
data, but also the UI.

Replication is for disconnected mode. JET replication is very
powerful can certainly handle the replication requirements here. That
feature has been preliminary tested in SQLNotes and initial results
are positive.

Have a great day

Pierre
glbcpajd
2007-06-02 12:12:36 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <***@...> wrote:
>
>
> And as for practical considerations, there's not much Ecco-only
> traffic here anyway, nor would the new forum have much SQLNotes traffic.
>

There's plenty of exciting ecco pro only discussion about lots of ecco
pro issues, particularly a new non-vaporware free program that brings
scripting capabilities to ecco auto-assignment rules that literally
add a lot of new functionality, sorting, and organization to ecco pro.
It really is something akin to turning ecco pro 4.01 into ecco pro 5.0.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/

If you or anyone else is interested in the above.

Gary B
GaryE
2007-05-31 14:37:25 UTC
Permalink
> I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother other
> Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space. Should I
> open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion is
> welcomed.

I, for one, don't care for it. It appears to me that your posts here
always have the implicit purpose of promoting your own product instead
of making a genuine contribution to the ECCO community such as it
stands today. As a best practice or a precedent this is a slippery
slope regarding what is and isn't off topic and opens the door to other
commercial ISV's using this forum for similar purposes (to gueriila
market and promote thier products and services). For that reason I
would prefer to see you take SQL-Notes discussion to another forum.
hustoniii
2007-06-01 07:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Is there anybody here that doesn't want to hear about it?

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation details.
> How
> > about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> > structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
> >
> > - Jeff
> >
> Hi Jeff,
>
> There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
> ID ItemID FieldID Value Modified
IDUser
> 315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03
>
>
> Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields, so
it
> is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.
>
> I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother
other
> Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space. Should
I
> open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your opinion
is
> welcomed.
>
> Pierre
>
hustoniii
2007-06-01 07:15:48 UTC
Permalink
wrote too soon...sorry, gary e

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "hustoniii" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Is there anybody here that doesn't want to hear about it?
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Jeff Sonnabend" <programming@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your implementation
details.
> > How
> > > about the other part of my post, any chance of seeing the table
> > > structures as they stand now? Please? ;-)
> > >
> > > - Jeff
> > >
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > There are a few tables. As an example, the dates table is:
> > ID ItemID FieldID Value
Modified
> IDUser
> > 315 2041 231 2005-06-28 17:00:00 2005-06-29 21:25:03
> >
> >
> > Some other tables (fields, items, views) have numerous fields,
so
> it
> > is best if you wait until you have it in your hands.
> >
> > I'm willing to discuss SQLNotes here, but don't want to bother
> other
> > Ecco users who don't care about it, and take all the space.
Should
> I
> > open a new forum dedicated to SQLNotes or stay here? Your
opinion
> is
> > welcomed.
> >
> > Pierre
> >
>
Arnold DeRoy
2007-06-01 15:47:52 UTC
Permalink
------------ Reply Message ------------
Date: Friday, June 01, 2007 7:10 AM +0000
From: hustoniii <hsiii-***@public.gmane.org>
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [eccopro] Re: SQLNotes for Office: Database structure

--On Friday, June 01, 2007 7:10 AM +0000 hustoniii
<hsiii-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Is there anybody here that doesn't want to hear about it?

------------ End Reply ------------


I have it filtered to the junk bin. Seen your message when I was
reviewing / dumping.



--
Small things done consistently in strategic places create major impact.
Mark Vincenzes
2007-05-30 11:02:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 May 2007 00:39:28 -0000, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:

>
> I wanted to get away from the idea that PIM database are second
> order, less quality, closed databases. PIMs are often thought of as
> toy software in enterprises. Also, SQL implies that complex queries
> (with AND, OR, etc) are possible, something lacking in many PIM's
> (including Ecco). Lotus Notes on the other hand can handle any piece
> of information, has outlining, etc.

I'm curious as to what feature(s) of Lotus Notes you consider "outlining".
Response documents? The "outline" control?
-mark
brjlk
2007-05-28 23:39:41 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> suggestion, is welcomed!
>
> Pierre

But Office can also stand for Open Office. Will it be difficult to
integrate it with OO too?

You mentioned Sync with Palm. Do you meanPalm Desktop?

A far fetched question given the software is not yet released. Will a
Palm version be possible?

John
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-29 00:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

With the various technologies used, I can guarantee that there will
not be a Palm version. Palm synch, eventually (in the immediate
through Outlook), but no Palm app, unless a Palm expert wants to work
with me on this!

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <***@...> wrote:
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > suggestion, is welcomed!
> >
> > Pierre
>
> But Office can also stand for Open Office. Will it be difficult to
> integrate it with OO too?
>
> You mentioned Sync with Palm. Do you meanPalm Desktop?
>
> A far fetched question given the software is not yet released. Will
a
> Palm version be possible?
>
> John
>
John LeBlanc
2007-05-30 00:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Palm version not necessary for me but native Palm sync would be a must
for me to give up Ecco. There are no decent off-the-shelf solutions;
they're slow and clumsy.

Your app sounds tantalizing!

John LeBlanc
__________________________________________________________

John C. LeBlanc, MD, MSc, FRCPC
Associate Professor
Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Community Health and Epidemiology
Dalhousie University

IWK Health Centre Work phone: (902) 470-8930
5850 University Avenue Work fax: (902) 470-6913
Halifax, Nova Scotia Email: John.LeBlanc-***@public.gmane.org
B3K 6R8 CANADA Pager: (902) 470-8888
__________________________________________________________

On Tue, 29 May 2007 00:24:20 -0000, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
Hi,

With the various technologies used, I can guarantee that there will
not be a Palm version. Palm synch, eventually (in the immediate
through Outlook), but no Palm app, unless a Palm expert wants to work
with me on this!

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk"
<***@...> wrote:
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org,
"Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that I'm
> > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > suggestion, is welcomed!
> >
> > Pierre
>
> But Office can also stand for Open Office. Will it be difficult to
> integrate it with OO too?
>
> You mentioned Sync with Palm. Do you meanPalm Desktop?
>
> A far fetched question given the software is not yet released. Will
a
> Palm version be possible?
>
> John
>
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-06-01 15:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I hear loud and clear that Palm synch is a must for many of you. I've
read and obtained the CDK to build conduits. I'm just missing the
actual Palm.

If anyone has an unused Palm device (old or not so old) and be
willing to exchange it for a free SQLNotes licence, it would greatly
help to develop the Palm conduits required for the much needed palm
synchronization.

Have a great day

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> With the various technologies used, I can guarantee that there will
> not be a Palm version. Palm synch, eventually (in the immediate
> through Outlook), but no Palm app, unless a Palm expert wants to
work
> with me on this!
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "brjlk" <brjlk@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the suggestion. I might simply drop the 'for office'
> > > suffix. If I may be good at developing software, I know that
I'm
> > > horrible at marketing! So any marketing help, including name
> > > suggestion, is welcomed!
> > >
> > > Pierre
> >
> > But Office can also stand for Open Office. Will it be difficult
to
> > integrate it with OO too?
> >
> > You mentioned Sync with Palm. Do you meanPalm Desktop?
> >
> > A far fetched question given the software is not yet released.
Will
> a
> > Palm version be possible?
> >
> > John
> >
>
Don Johnson
2007-06-01 17:03:49 UTC
Permalink
At 08:50 AM 6/1/2007, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
>If anyone has an unused Palm device (old or not so old) and be
>willing to exchange it for a free SQLNotes licence, it would greatly
>help to develop the Palm conduits required for the much needed palm
>synchronization.

You know, this IS the eccopro list, not the SQLNotes list. There is
disagreement among the moderators as to how much SQLNotes discussion
should be taking place on the list. I think it is too much. Others
think not. So ...

But don't you think your persistent posting here about SQLNotes has
nothing to do with ecco?

Doesn't it look like you are using this list as a kind of alpha
testing pool? [for vapourware, I might add]

I think that it is time to take the discussion elsewhere. That is my
opinion as a moderator. I think you will get protests from other
moderators that your continued commercial promotion of SQLNotes on
the eccopro list is OK. Thus I am not speaking from consensus, but I
am expressing my own strong opinion.

You decide what you want to do with that.


Regards,
Pastor Don Johnson, Jer. 33.3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grace Baptist Church of Victoria (Independent)
2731 Matson Rd, Victoria, BC V9B 4M5
ch. 250.474.7283 hm. 250.474.7187
fx. 250.474.2146 cell. 250.889.9789
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-06-01 17:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Since 2 senior members of this group have explicitely asked that
SQLNotes be discussed elsewhere, I've opened another forum group here
at yahoo. Those interested can find it I'm sure. I won't be
sollicitating any members of course. I'll just continue dev. like
I've done for the past 4 years now.

The whole issue of SPAM caused enough friction b/w members earlier
this year, I don't want to be the source of any.

Thanks for your contribution and have a great day and a great summer.

Pierre Paul Landry M. Sc.
Dir. NeoTech Systems
Montreal, Canada

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <***@...> wrote:
>
> At 08:50 AM 6/1/2007, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> >If anyone has an unused Palm device (old or not so old) and be
> >willing to exchange it for a free SQLNotes licence, it would
greatly
> >help to develop the Palm conduits required for the much needed palm
> >synchronization.
>
> You know, this IS the eccopro list, not the SQLNotes list. There is
> disagreement among the moderators as to how much SQLNotes
discussion
> should be taking place on the list. I think it is too much. Others
> think not. So ...
>
> But don't you think your persistent posting here about SQLNotes has
> nothing to do with ecco?
>
> Doesn't it look like you are using this list as a kind of alpha
> testing pool? [for vapourware, I might add]
>
> I think that it is time to take the discussion elsewhere. That is
my
> opinion as a moderator. I think you will get protests from other
> moderators that your continued commercial promotion of SQLNotes on
> the eccopro list is OK. Thus I am not speaking from consensus, but
I
> am expressing my own strong opinion.
>
> You decide what you want to do with that.
>
>
> Regards,
> Pastor Don Johnson, Jer. 33.3
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Grace Baptist Church of Victoria (Independent)
> 2731 Matson Rd, Victoria, BC V9B 4M5
> ch. 250.474.7283 hm. 250.474.7187
> fx. 250.474.2146 cell. 250.889.9789
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
John LeBlanc
2007-06-01 18:21:08 UTC
Permalink
I for one appreciated hearing about SQLNotes and while it probably makes
sense to open up another forum, I think that Pierre shouldn't leave this
forum with the sense that his postings were inappropriate or merely an
attempt to flog his product. I personally didn't get that sense at all
from his postings.

The advantage of periodic postings from Pierre is that Ecco users may
thereby have some input into the development of SQLNotes and it would be
good for us to hear periodically, e.g., a few times/year, how
development is going and how to be involved.

His recognition of the importance of synching to Palms and offering to
develop conduits is a good example of considering the needs of the Ecco
community.

John LeBlanc
__________________________________________________________

John C. LeBlanc, MD, MSc, FRCPC
Associate Professor
Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Community Health and Epidemiology
Dalhousie University

IWK Health Centre Work phone: (902) 470-8930
5850 University Avenue Work fax: (902) 470-6913
Halifax, Nova Scotia Email: John.LeBlanc-***@public.gmane.org
B3K 6R8 CANADA Pager: (902) 470-8888
__________________________________________________________

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:59:26 -0000, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
Hi,

Since 2 senior members of this group have explicitely asked that
SQLNotes be discussed elsewhere, I've opened another forum group here
at yahoo. Those interested can find it I'm sure. I won't be
sollicitating any members of course. I'll just continue dev. like
I've done for the past 4 years now.

The whole issue of SPAM caused enough friction b/w members earlier
this year, I don't want to be the source of any.

Thanks for your contribution and have a great day and a great summer.

Pierre Paul Landry M. Sc.
Dir. NeoTech Systems
Montreal, Canada

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don
Johnson <***@...> wrote:
>
> At 08:50 AM 6/1/2007, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> >If anyone has an unused Palm device (old or not so old) and be
> >willing to exchange it for a free SQLNotes licence, it would
greatly
> >help to develop the Palm conduits required for the much needed palm
> >synchronization.
>
> You know, this IS the eccopro list, not the SQLNotes list. There is
> disagreement among the moderators as to how much SQLNotes
discussion
> should be taking place on the list. I think it is too much. Others
> think not. So ...
>
> But don't you think your persistent posting here about SQLNotes has
> nothing to do with ecco?
>
> Doesn't it look like you are using this list as a kind of alpha
> testing pool? [for vapourware, I might add]
>
> I think that it is time to take the discussion elsewhere. That is
my
> opinion as a moderator. I think you will get protests from other
> moderators that your continued commercial promotion of SQLNotes on
> the eccopro list is OK. Thus I am not speaking from consensus, but
I
> am expressing my own strong opinion.
>
> You decide what you want to do with that.
>
>
> Regards,
> Pastor Don Johnson, Jer. 33.3
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Grace Baptist Church of Victoria (Independent)
> 2731 Matson Rd, Victoria, BC V9B 4M5
> ch. 250.474.7283 hm. 250.474.7187
> fx. 250.474.2146 cell. 250.889.9789
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
Doug Essinger-Hileman
2007-06-01 19:01:48 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Jun 2007 at 15:21, John LeBlanc wrote:

> I for one appreciated hearing about SQLNotes and while it probably
> makes sense to open up another forum, I think that Pierre shouldn't
> leave this forum with the sense that his postings were inappropriate
> or merely an attempt to flog his product. I personally didn't get that
> sense at all from his postings.
>
> The advantage of periodic postings from Pierre is that Ecco users may
> thereby have some input into the development of SQLNotes and it would
> be good for us to hear periodically, e.g., a few times/year, how
> development is going and how to be involved.
>
> His recognition of the importance of synching to Palms and offering to
> develop conduits is a good example of considering the needs of the
> Ecco community.

I agree completely.

Doug
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-06-01 19:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Well.. I've done it again!

I Did not want to cause friction b/w members and either way you look
at it I've caused some. Well forum groups are cheap so, the forum is
there, those interested can come and discuss it.

I dont feel rejected at all and will keep polling this and the other
group for ideas.

I hope that this forum will return to discussing the great software
that Ecco is, an inspiration to many of us, a great inspiration for
me anyway.

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Doug Essinger-Hileman"
<***@...> wrote:
>
> On 1 Jun 2007 at 15:21, John LeBlanc wrote:
>
> > I for one appreciated hearing about SQLNotes and while it probably
> > makes sense to open up another forum, I think that Pierre
shouldn't
> > leave this forum with the sense that his postings were
inappropriate
> > or merely an attempt to flog his product. I personally didn't get
that
> > sense at all from his postings.
> >
> > The advantage of periodic postings from Pierre is that Ecco users
may
> > thereby have some input into the development of SQLNotes and it
would
> > be good for us to hear periodically, e.g., a few times/year, how
> > development is going and how to be involved.
> >
> > His recognition of the importance of synching to Palms and
offering to
> > develop conduits is a good example of considering the needs of the
> > Ecco community.
>
> I agree completely.
>
> Doug
>
GaryE
2007-06-01 23:34:23 UTC
Permalink
> I dont feel rejected at all and will keep polling this and
> the other group for ideas.

Hmmm. Confusing. So you offerred to take the discussiuon elksewhere
and agreed to do so. But you'll continue to promote the product here
as well? Sounds pretty two-faced to me!

- GaryE
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-06-02 01:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Sorry GaryE, but my message was clear:

I'll get ideas from here. I'll see what is important to Ecco users, to
best serve them.

But I will NOT promote "that which shall not be named" in this forum.

Is that clear enough now?

Pierre



--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "GaryE" <***@...> wrote:
>
> > I dont feel rejected at all and will keep polling this and
> > the other group for ideas.
>
> Hmmm. Confusing. So you offerred to take the discussiuon elksewhere
> and agreed to do so. But you'll continue to promote the product here
> as well? Sounds pretty two-faced to me!
>
> - GaryE
>
Ray McDowell
2007-06-02 01:47:40 UTC
Permalink
Pieere,

When you set up a forum, please let those of us who are interested know where it is.

Thanks

Ray

Pierre Paul Landry <ppl32-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Sorry GaryE, but my message was clear:

I'll get ideas from here. I'll see what is important to Ecco users, to
best serve them.

But I will NOT promote "that which shall not be named" in this forum.

Is that clear enough now?

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "GaryE" <***@...> wrote:
>
> > I dont feel rejected at all and will keep polling this and
> > the other group for ideas.
>
> Hmmm. Confusing. So you offerred to take the discussiuon elksewhere
> and agreed to do so. But you'll continue to promote the product here
> as well? Sounds pretty two-faced to me!
>
> - GaryE
>






"Anything is possible in God's time, but nothing is for sure" (Luka Bloom)


Ray McDowell
http://www.raymondmcdowell.com
b***@public.gmane.org
2007-06-02 02:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Ray McDowell <mcdowellray-/***@public.gmane.org> said on 06/01/2007 9:47:40 PM -0400
> When you set up a forum, please let those of us who are interested
> know where it is.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ray
It wasn't hard to guess :-) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SQLNotes/
It's up to eleven members now (breathing hard on the heels of ecco-pro
group ;-) )

Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
--
r634718
2007-06-03 04:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Someone here has asked SQLNotes to move to a different group?

Hmmmmmm ... that's a positive sign. Can't stand the competition.
That means some seniors may actually see it as potential
competition. That's always a good sign. We'll see...

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pierre Paul Landry" <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Since 2 senior members of this group have explicitely asked that
> SQLNotes be discussed elsewhere, I've opened another forum group
here
> at yahoo. Those interested can find it I'm sure. I won't be
> sollicitating any members of course. I'll just continue dev. like
> I've done for the past 4 years now.
>
> The whole issue of SPAM caused enough friction b/w members earlier
> this year, I don't want to be the source of any.
>
> Thanks for your contribution and have a great day and a great
summer.
>
> Pierre Paul Landry M. Sc.
> Dir. NeoTech Systems
> Montreal, Canada
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Don Johnson <dcsj@> wrote:
> >
> > At 08:50 AM 6/1/2007, Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
> > >If anyone has an unused Palm device (old or not so old) and be
> > >willing to exchange it for a free SQLNotes licence, it would
> greatly
> > >help to develop the Palm conduits required for the much needed
palm
> > >synchronization.
> >
> > You know, this IS the eccopro list, not the SQLNotes list. There
is
> > disagreement among the moderators as to how much SQLNotes
> discussion
> > should be taking place on the list. I think it is too much.
Others
> > think not. So ...
> >
> > But don't you think your persistent posting here about SQLNotes
has
> > nothing to do with ecco?
> >
> > Doesn't it look like you are using this list as a kind of alpha
> > testing pool? [for vapourware, I might add]
> >
> > I think that it is time to take the discussion elsewhere. That
is
> my
> > opinion as a moderator. I think you will get protests from other
> > moderators that your continued commercial promotion of SQLNotes
on
> > the eccopro list is OK. Thus I am not speaking from consensus,
but
> I
> > am expressing my own strong opinion.
> >
> > You decide what you want to do with that.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pastor Don Johnson, Jer. 33.3
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Grace Baptist Church of Victoria (Independent)
> > 2731 Matson Rd, Victoria, BC V9B 4M5
> > ch. 250.474.7283 hm. 250.474.7187
> > fx. 250.474.2146 cell. 250.889.9789
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
>
GaryE
2007-06-03 15:57:36 UTC
Permalink
> That means some seniors may actually see it as potential
> competition.

Competition for what? This isn't about evangelism, loyalty or
anything of the sort. I simply don't want the ECCO forum
contaminated with off topic discussion. Shall we condone discussion
of a forthcoming Viagra distribution device as appropriate content
for this forum? There is nothing obscene, pornographic, nor vulgar
about the topic. But its not about ECCO! I participate in walk-a-
thons for March of Dimes. Can we discuss that here as well? Should
we permit this sort of discussion? Presumably not! What then makes
discussion of a competing product appropriate? Somehow there needs
to be a reasonable way to create boundaries for appropriate content.
If it isn't about ECCO then its off-topic. Whats so hard to
understand about that?

The membership of this forum has endured more than a small amount of
angst over SPAM and inappropriate content. Its a wonderful that this
is behind us. And I think the new-found peaceful environment that
now exists should be reserved for ECCO.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: As far as I am
concerned, using the forum for off-topic discussions, including the
discussion of competing products or using the forum for focus-group
or market research about the development off alternative products is
not appropriiate and is just as much SPAM in my mailbox as is Viagra
ads or any other off topic solicitation.
Mauibro
2007-06-03 19:01:53 UTC
Permalink
I have been a "silent" member of this forum for years.
This is ridiculous.

Accept the fact people, There seems to be nothing new on the horizon as far
as Ecco goes.
There have been lots of talk over the years of alternatives, and people
suggesting creating a new program with the features that we love about Ecco.

If someone is working on an alternative solution to the dead end which is
Ecco dont you people want to know about it? Its not like Netmanage is still
selling and improving the product so there is some reason to be worry about
hurting them.
The bottom line is we like Ecco for what it enables us to do.
But its dying a slow death, and lacks more and more features that we all
want.

Is discussing alternatives off topic? Perhaps so. In the end the moderators
define "on topic" not me.

But I would guess that I speak for a large majority of silent members when I
say that most people here welcome the discussion of alternatives to ecco.
Others should make new forums? Sure.

But if these kinds of topics are discuraged in the first place, we never
would know those alternatives exist.

If someone else wants to build an Ecco like app, designed to emulate its
most useful features, would you rather he start another forum to discuss
it? Should someone here stumble upon it by some miracle should he not bring
it up here because it is "off topic?"

I sincerely hope that these topics are not deemed off topic by the powers
that be. I know that there has been at least one moderator message to that
effect. But it seems that there is no consensus yet. I hope my agument is
persuasive,

I truly believe that those who tend to complain are quickest to speak.
And do so repeatedly.
This paints an inaccurate picture of our feelings in general.

I highly doubt that they speak for most.
The comaparisons to Viagra are beyond ridiculous.
And if the "March of Dimes" wanted to ask Ecco user for help in creating an
Ecco alternative whats the problem?
However, to my knowledge they are not.

Sure its a forum about Ecco. But it is an "Ecco users forum."
Ecco user almost to a person are frustrated that Netmanage is doing
nothing. Alternatives are a natural topic in that setting.

Viagra on the other hand has nothing whatsoever to do with Ecco. It is thus
easily seen to be off topic.
Based on the long history of discussion of alternatives, the constant
whining that Netmanage is doing nothing, and the unfulfilled promises that
they make, it would seem that for most "Ecco users" discusion of
alternatives would be most welcome.

I believe it is for most of us.
If it is clearly a topic that most "Ecco users" would be interested in, it
would seem very much on topic.

I suggest a poll if nessesary.



On 6/3/07, GaryE <smuggs99-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > That means some seniors may actually see it as potential
> > competition.
>
> Competition for what? This isn't about evangelism, loyalty or
> anything of the sort. I simply don't want the ECCO forum
> contaminated with off topic discussion. Shall we condone discussion
> of a forthcoming Viagra distribution device as appropriate content
> for this forum? There is nothing obscene, pornographic, nor vulgar
> about the topic. But its not about ECCO! I participate in walk-a-
> thons for March of Dimes. Can we discuss that here as well? Should
> we permit this sort of discussion? Presumably not! What then makes
> discussion of a competing product appropriate? Somehow there needs
> to be a reasonable way to create boundaries for appropriate content.
> If it isn't about ECCO then its off-topic. Whats so hard to
> understand about that?
>
> The membership of this forum has endured more than a small amount of
> angst over SPAM and inappropriate content. Its a wonderful that this
> is behind us. And I think the new-found peaceful environment that
> now exists should be reserved for ECCO.
>
> I've said this before and I'll say it again: As far as I am
> concerned, using the forum for off-topic discussions, including the
> discussion of competing products or using the forum for focus-group
> or market research about the development off alternative products is
> not appropriiate and is just as much SPAM in my mailbox as is Viagra
> ads or any other off topic solicitation.
>
>
>
GaryE
2007-06-03 20:04:37 UTC
Permalink
> If someone else wants to build an Ecco like app, designed to
> emulate its most useful features, would you rather he start
> another forum to discuss it?

Indeed, I would.

> I know that there has been at least one moderator message to that
> effect. But it seems that there is no consensus yet.

It was not the least bit clear to me that that was an official
moderator opion as oppossed to a personal view. And I am certain
that there is a lack of consensus about this amongst the moderators.

> I suggest a poll if nessesary.

Thanks, I needed a laugh today. Approximately 35 memebers actually
voted in the poll regarding forum moderators. This would mean that
only one percent of the forum membership even bothered voting.

Moreover, I was among the top 5 voted moderators, and yet I was not
offerred an opportunity to have such a role. This is definitve
proof that the current forum management has blatant disregard for
polls as a meangful way to make decisions.

- GaryE
GaryE
2007-06-03 20:12:52 UTC
Permalink
One more thing

The welcome screen of this forum clearly states as follows:
"You also agree not to post commercial messages or solicit list members
for your services"

I think, therefore, that posts designed to guerilla market, or
otherwise conduct product marketing activities around alternative
commercial products and services are off-topic and inappropriate.

My feeling is that the SQL-Notes discussions have crossed that line and
belong elsewhere, as Pierre has graciously volunteered to do. I would
prefer to have nothing in my mailbox than a digest full of off-topiuc
discussion. And I find it objectionable that I'd have to opt out of
digests to opt out of SQL-Notes messages which can be easily obtained
by those interested elsewhere in yahoo groups.

- GaryE
Ilona Zablocki
2007-06-03 21:32:42 UTC
Permalink
I appreciated hearing about the possibility of a modern program that
can do what ECCO does. I am very very glad Pierre is working on this,
and hope his efforts will be successful. I also hope (since he has
already opened a separate forum for SQLnotes discussions) that
someone will let me know if/when it comes to market for folks like
me... not a beta tester, not an early-adopter, just a regular user.

I didn't perceive the discussions about SQLNotes as guerilla
marketing. It would have been fine with me if they continued... it is
also fine with me if they continue now in a separate forum. However,
I really really hope we can limit the "meta-discussions" on how this
listserve ought to operate.... because for "regular users" like
myself, discussions of internal group politics are of limited
interest. Or, if some of us feel they are essential, perhaps they
could be clearly labeled so someone like myself could skip them.

At 12:12 PM 6/3/2007, GaryE wrote:
>I think, therefore, that posts designed to guerilla market, or
>otherwise conduct product marketing activities around alternative
>commercial products and services are off-topic and inappropriate.
Ray McDowell
2007-06-03 21:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Most of the messages I've seen lately were from you, and on this thread. I do not understand. Are you once again attempting to become moderator? I will say this, if I knew you were in the running it would certainly inspire me to vote.....for practically anyone else.

The discusson on SQLNOtes has moved to another forum. If you wish to continue this discussion, I suggest you join that forum. Otherwise, please focus on Ecco related issues.

GaryE <smuggs99-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote: > That means some seniors may actually see it as potential
> competition.

Competition for what? This isn't about evangelism, loyalty or
anything of the sort. I simply don't want the ECCO forum
contaminated with off topic discussion. Shall we condone discussion
of a forthcoming Viagra distribution device as appropriate content
for this forum? There is nothing obscene, pornographic, nor vulgar
about the topic. But its not about ECCO! I participate in walk-a-
thons for March of Dimes. Can we discuss that here as well? Should
we permit this sort of discussion? Presumably not! What then makes
discussion of a competing product appropriate? Somehow there needs
to be a reasonable way to create boundaries for appropriate content.
If it isn't about ECCO then its off-topic. Whats so hard to
understand about that?

The membership of this forum has endured more than a small amount of
angst over SPAM and inappropriate content. Its a wonderful that this
is behind us. And I think the new-found peaceful environment that
now exists should be reserved for ECCO.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: As far as I am
concerned, using the forum for off-topic discussions, including the
discussion of competing products or using the forum for focus-group
or market research about the development off alternative products is
not appropriiate and is just as much SPAM in my mailbox as is Viagra
ads or any other off topic solicitation.






"Anything is possible in God's time, but nothing is for sure" (Luka Bloom)


Ray McDowell
http://www.raymondmcdowell.com
delgado92651
2007-06-03 22:57:32 UTC
Permalink
I found the SQLNotes dicussion extremely useful and interesting and am
sorry to see it run off. I would echo Ray's feelings if there were a
moderator vote.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Ray McDowell <***@...> wrote:
>
> Most of the messages I've seen lately were from you, and on this
thread. I do not understand. Are you once again attempting to become
moderator? I will say this, if I knew you were in the running it would
certainly inspire me to vote.....for practically anyone else.
>
> The discusson on SQLNOtes has moved to another forum. If you wish to
continue this discussion, I suggest you join that forum. Otherwise,
please focus on Ecco related issues.
>
> GaryE <***@...> wrote: > That
means some seniors may actually see it as potential
> > competition.
>
> Competition for what? This isn't about evangelism, loyalty or
> anything of the sort. I simply don't want the ECCO forum
> contaminated with off topic discussion. Shall we condone discussion
> of a forthcoming Viagra distribution device as appropriate content
> for this forum? There is nothing obscene, pornographic, nor vulgar
> about the topic. But its not about ECCO! I participate in walk-a-
> thons for March of Dimes. Can we discuss that here as well? Should
> we permit this sort of discussion? Presumably not! What then makes
> discussion of a competing product appropriate? Somehow there needs
> to be a reasonable way to create boundaries for appropriate content.
> If it isn't about ECCO then its off-topic. Whats so hard to
> understand about that?
>
> The membership of this forum has endured more than a small amount of
> angst over SPAM and inappropriate content. Its a wonderful that this
> is behind us. And I think the new-found peaceful environment that
> now exists should be reserved for ECCO.
>
> I've said this before and I'll say it again: As far as I am
> concerned, using the forum for off-topic discussions, including the
> discussion of competing products or using the forum for focus-group
> or market research about the development off alternative products is
> not appropriiate and is just as much SPAM in my mailbox as is Viagra
> ads or any other off topic solicitation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Anything is possible in God's time, but nothing is for sure" (Luka
Bloom)
>
>
> Ray McDowell
> http://www.raymondmcdowell.com
>
Friedhelm Dohmann
2007-06-04 02:12:05 UTC
Permalink
As one of the list owners let me pitch in here:

Pierre Paul reacted very graciously and moved the discussion to his own
forum. I found the message exchange very insightful and had no plan to
object to the limited amount of messages discussing his (dream)program
which he has not released yet. The situation changed when
A) he admitted his plans to market his program copy-protected and for
commercial interests,
B) he admitted that part of the program is released to some of his
clients,
C) he was fishing for ideas from forum members (see below) but not
willing to deliver more detail, screen shots or beta testing in return,
D) he had to respond with limited info regarding his program to more
and more messages clogging the inboxes of the majority of list
subscribers not interested in coding his software project.

EccoPro list subscribers should feel free to continue their
participation at the Yahoo SQLNotes forum.

Friedhelm



Pierre Paul wrote:

Sorry GaryE, but my message was clear:

I'll get ideas from here. I'll see what is important to Ecco users, to
best serve them.

But I will NOT promote "that which shall not be named" in this forum.

Is that clear enough now?

Pierre

-----Original Message-----
From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of delgado92651
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:58 PM
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [eccopro] Re: SQLNotes off to another group

I found the SQLNotes dicussion extremely useful and interesting and am
sorry to see it run off. I would echo Ray's feelings if there were a
moderator vote.
hustoniii
2007-06-04 20:43:05 UTC
Permalink
I, for one, think you handled it perfectly, Friedhelm.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Friedhelm Dohmann" <***@...> wrote:
>
> As one of the list owners let me pitch in here:
>
> Pierre Paul reacted very graciously and moved the discussion to his
own
> forum. I found the message exchange very insightful and had no plan
to
> object to the limited amount of messages discussing his
(dream)program
> which he has not released yet. The situation changed when
> A) he admitted his plans to market his program copy-protected and
for
> commercial interests,
> B) he admitted that part of the program is released to some of
his
> clients,
> C) he was fishing for ideas from forum members (see below) but
not
> willing to deliver more detail, screen shots or beta testing in
return,
> D) he had to respond with limited info regarding his program to
more
> and more messages clogging the inboxes of the majority of list
> subscribers not interested in coding his software project.
>
> EccoPro list subscribers should feel free to continue their
> participation at the Yahoo SQLNotes forum.
>
> Friedhelm
>
>
>
> Pierre Paul wrote:
>
> Sorry GaryE, but my message was clear:
>
> I'll get ideas from here. I'll see what is important to Ecco users,
to
> best serve them.
>
> But I will NOT promote "that which shall not be named" in this forum.
>
> Is that clear enough now?
>
> Pierre
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf
> Of delgado92651
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:58 PM
> To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
> Subject: [eccopro] Re: SQLNotes off to another group
>
> I found the SQLNotes dicussion extremely useful and interesting and
am
> sorry to see it run off. I would echo Ray's feelings if there were a
> moderator vote.
>
hustoniii
2007-06-04 20:39:29 UTC
Permalink
OK. Pierre mentioned an alternative he was working on based on his
admiration for the program we all love, and instead of taking the
current path of modifying the dormant, he chose to start with a blank
slate. After his initial mention, it seems that every other post of
his in our group was based either on questions from some of us,
challenges from others of us, or downright cynicism and nastiness from
others. He went out of his way to answer the curious, respond
courteously to those who felt his work was vaporware. At the very
first indication that enough had been discussed about this non-ecco
product on this group, he immediately set up his own group, didn't
refer to the new group by name, and was immediately beset by those
who felt he was still playing with one foot in each group.

I understand the objections those who have criticized him have, but he
couldn't have been more cooperative, when the issues were raised, so
can't we get past ninth-grade nastiness, thank him for his
cooperation, and just move on? Ecco-like software has ALWAYS been
considered on-topic, as those whose use of the program has (unlike
some of us) been thwarted at the corporate level because of the lack
of current developer support.

Pierre apologized to those who took offense, moved his discussion, and
has refused to mention the name of his software on this forum. I'm
sure there are those who could ask for more from him. I just don't
think one could ask for more, reasonably.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "GaryE" <***@...> wrote:
>
> > That means some seniors may actually see it as potential
> > competition.
>
> Competition for what? This isn't about evangelism, loyalty or
> anything of the sort. I simply don't want the ECCO forum
> contaminated with off topic discussion. Shall we condone discussion
> of a forthcoming Viagra distribution device as appropriate content
> for this forum? There is nothing obscene, pornographic, nor vulgar
> about the topic. But its not about ECCO! I participate in walk-a-
> thons for March of Dimes. Can we discuss that here as well? Should
> we permit this sort of discussion? Presumably not! What then makes
> discussion of a competing product appropriate? Somehow there needs
> to be a reasonable way to create boundaries for appropriate
content.
> If it isn't about ECCO then its off-topic. Whats so hard to
> understand about that?
>
> The membership of this forum has endured more than a small amount of
> angst over SPAM and inappropriate content. Its a wonderful that
this
> is behind us. And I think the new-found peaceful environment that
> now exists should be reserved for ECCO.
>
> I've said this before and I'll say it again: As far as I am
> concerned, using the forum for off-topic discussions, including the
> discussion of competing products or using the forum for focus-group
> or market research about the development off alternative products is
> not appropriiate and is just as much SPAM in my mailbox as is Viagra
> ads or any other off topic solicitation.
>
.
2007-06-04 23:41:17 UTC
Permalink
hustonii:

Amen a hundred times to that! My feelings exactly, expressed better than I possibly could!

Santiago
waschbar
2007-05-23 18:16:27 UTC
Permalink
It would be funny to make a list of all of everybody who has said they are going to produce an Ecco Successor. Not to mention the effort to get NetManage to release the Ecco code for open-source development. Not one of these efforts has succeeded yet! Here we are in 2007, the 10-year anniversary of Netmanage's Ecco shutdown.

Well, it could be worse. There are still people waiting for the successor to Lotus Agenda, which never even made it to Windows!

> Phil
> Are you around? Or is anyone around that knows anything about this?
>
> Did this project go any further or is it just another in a decade
> long trail of Ecco follow-up dead ends. (Excuse my sarcasm Phil, you
> don't owe us anything, of course you have other things to do. But I
> can't help being disgusted with the continuous chain of "monumental"
> announcements followed by a big brew ha ha and much hand wringing,
> followed by either an immediate or a slow and torturous dead end.
> AYE CARUMBA!)
>
> I am still astounded that in 10 years, nothing has developed to be a
> successor for ECCO. As I have said, there are dozens of open source
> projects that are dedicated to far less useful programs. Why the
> heck didn't an Eccolike PIM ever get started on that basis (without
> NM altogether...who needs them.). It baffles me to this day.
>
> I'm traumatized by a decade of this!
r634718
2007-05-23 19:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Can I get an AAAAAAmen that one brother.

Anyone been around long enough (I know there are a couple left here
who have been) to remember one of the earlier efforts in the late 90s
I think ... some lawyer named Kaufman (I think) was trying to get NM
to let go (as I recall he used Ecco in his law firm). This one
stands out in my mind. I don't think it was the very first effort,
but may have been the first "serious" one. I remember HOURS AND
HOURS of conversations in the old NM forum about this. Went on for
many months. A zillion posts later it was a total bust.

Back in those days I used to help out in any way I could, and got
involved a little. Now I am too tired of it. I'm hoping someone
else (maybe someone who has more recently discovered the magic of
Ecco) still has the fire in the belly and will one day create the
real thing. Hope springs eternal!

Several attempts to get investors from both the Ecco faithful and
outsiders failed. And so many other attempts it is depressing to
recount them all.

In the meantime, I still use the one and only original. Sadly
unfinished in a few frustrating respects, but still, after 10 YEARS
of no development!!! in my view, the number one program ever created
for the personal computer. And still amazingly useful.

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "waschbar" <***@...> wrote:
>
> It would be funny to make a list of all of everybody who has said
they are going to produce an Ecco Successor. Not to mention the
effort to get NetManage to release the Ecco code for open-source
development. Not one of these efforts has succeeded yet! Here we
are in 2007, the 10-year anniversary of Netmanage's Ecco shutdown.
>
> Well, it could be worse. There are still people waiting for the
successor to Lotus Agenda, which never even made it to Windows!
>
> > Phil
> > Are you around? Or is anyone around that knows anything about
this?
> >
> > Did this project go any further or is it just another in a decade
> > long trail of Ecco follow-up dead ends. (Excuse my sarcasm Phil,
you
> > don't owe us anything, of course you have other things to do. But
I
> > can't help being disgusted with the continuous chain
of "monumental"
> > announcements followed by a big brew ha ha and much hand wringing,
> > followed by either an immediate or a slow and torturous dead end.
> > AYE CARUMBA!)
> >
> > I am still astounded that in 10 years, nothing has developed to
be a
> > successor for ECCO. As I have said, there are dozens of open
source
> > projects that are dedicated to far less useful programs. Why the
> > heck didn't an Eccolike PIM ever get started on that basis
(without
> > NM altogether...who needs them.). It baffles me to this day.
> >
> > I'm traumatized by a decade of this!
>
Pat
2007-08-04 06:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Yeh, I'll Amen that!

I'm also one of those who still miss Agenda, Magellan and all the
other good programs that weren't carried forward over the years.

I've had Ecco on my computer ever since it came out (tried Rat Pack
too, but that was so buggy that it crashed most of the time and
corrupted all my hard work.)

Ecco has never let me down! I've never lost data (I'm almost afraid
to say that). I don't think it has ever crashed, through all the
Windows updates through the years, and even now with Vista.

But, I admit that I have neglected Ecco for too long, using it mainly
as a historical record of items, and not using in recent years its
full capabilities. It's not that something better came along; I
guess it is that because it wasn't being updated, that I figured it
would expire one of these days.

I just took another look tonight, and I'm amazed at all the
information I've accumulated in there, that I had totally forgotten
about. I think I'm going to start relying on the old gal again.
It's an amazing piece of programming!

I'm thankful for the continuation of this Yahoo Ecco Group and I want
to add my encouragement to anyone who can bring Ecco back to active
development and support. I'd buy an update in an instant!

Pat
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Can I get an AAAAAAmen that one brother.
>
> Anyone been around long enough (I know there are a couple left here
> who have been) to remember one of the earlier efforts in the late
90s
>
kensturm
2007-08-04 11:47:32 UTC
Permalink
I also have used Ecco Pro since its beginning and it never ceases to
amaze me. Yesterday I decided to print out a listing of my phone
numbers for use in my car. I bought a DayRunner, 3 ring, address
book, which is formated for 5.5" x 8.5" paper. To my surprise, Ecco
already supports this particular company and format. It made the
task allot easier.

Yes, I also will be one to purchase any update/upgrade to Ecco Pro
should it be released. I have tried and used many products over the
years, and Ecco is one of two products I began using in the 90's and
am still using ever day.

Ken


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "Pat" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Yeh, I'll Amen that!
>
> I'm also one of those who still miss Agenda, Magellan and all the
> other good programs that weren't carried forward over the years.
>
> I've had Ecco on my computer ever since it came out (tried Rat Pack
> too, but that was so buggy that it crashed most of the time and
> corrupted all my hard work.)
>
> Ecco has never let me down! I've never lost data (I'm almost
afraid
> to say that). I don't think it has ever crashed, through all the
> Windows updates through the years, and even now with Vista.
>
> But, I admit that I have neglected Ecco for too long, using it
mainly
> as a historical record of items, and not using in recent years its
> full capabilities. It's not that something better came along; I
> guess it is that because it wasn't being updated, that I figured it
> would expire one of these days.
>
> I just took another look tonight, and I'm amazed at all the
> information I've accumulated in there, that I had totally forgotten
> about. I think I'm going to start relying on the old gal again.
> It's an amazing piece of programming!
>
> I'm thankful for the continuation of this Yahoo Ecco Group and I
want
> to add my encouragement to anyone who can bring Ecco back to active
> development and support. I'd buy an update in an instant!
>
> Pat
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "r634718" <r634718@> wrote:
> >
> > Can I get an AAAAAAmen that one brother.
> >
> > Anyone been around long enough (I know there are a couple left
here
> > who have been) to remember one of the earlier efforts in the late
> 90s
> >
>
John
2007-08-05 15:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Well, just in case there are any software mogul-wanna be's here. I'm
yet another long-time ECCO Pro user lurking here for the odd tip/trick
that will keep me up and running (now on VISTA). And I would buy an
ECCO update or replacement (if you're trying to guesstimate the market.)

Like others, I currently use ECCO mostly as a repository of important
facts, dates, numbers, memories, etc. But I do add to it, and
sometimes clean it up. I suspect everybody has a requirement for
something like it. I occasionally wonder (though it's not keeping me
up at night), how non-ECCO users organize all the stuff I have in ECCO
outlines ...

Thanks for Group contributors, and for keeping ECCO viable.

Best,

John


--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "waschbar" <***@...> wrote:
>
> It would be funny to make a list of all of everybody who has said
they are going to produce an Ecco Successor. Not to mention the
effort to get NetManage to release the Ecco code for open-source
development. Not one of these efforts has succeeded yet! Here we are
in 2007, the 10-year anniversary of Netmanage's Ecco shutdown.
>
> Well, it could be worse. There are still people waiting for the
successor to Lotus Agenda, which never even made it to Windows!
>
> > Phil
> > Are you around? Or is anyone around that knows anything about this?
> >
> > Did this project go any further or is it just another in a decade
> > long trail of Ecco follow-up dead ends. (Excuse my sarcasm Phil, you
> > don't owe us anything, of course you have other things to do. But I
> > can't help being disgusted with the continuous chain of "monumental"
> > announcements followed by a big brew ha ha and much hand wringing,
> > followed by either an immediate or a slow and torturous dead end.
> > AYE CARUMBA!)
> >
> > I am still astounded that in 10 years, nothing has developed to be a
> > successor for ECCO. As I have said, there are dozens of open source
> > projects that are dedicated to far less useful programs. Why the
> > heck didn't an Eccolike PIM ever get started on that basis (without
> > NM altogether...who needs them.). It baffles me to this day.
> >
> > I'm traumatized by a decade of this!
>
brjlk
2007-08-05 16:13:54 UTC
Permalink
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "John" <***@...> wrote:
I occasionally wonder (though it's not keeping me
> up at night), how non-ECCO users organize all the stuff I have in ECCO
> outlines ...

> John
I was an Ecco user, for several years, though not a power user as many
here. I quit using Ecco when I go a Palm PDA because not all
information were synchronised to Palm, for example collapsible
outlines and columns.Also I got a lot of duplicates when I sync with
Palm PDA.

So for Outliner, I find Listpro fits the bill for me for my outliner
requirements. You will notice much similarity with Ecco.

Listpro:http://iliumsoft.com/site/lp/lp_ssh.htm#hpc
For my calendar, to-dos I use Agendus Windows & Palm

Another program that has nothing to do with a PIM (being a personal
finance software) is Adarian Money. It's flexibility and power reminds
me of Ecco
Adarian Money: http://adarian.com/

brjlk
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-08-05 16:31:50 UTC
Permalink
>And I would buy an ECCO update or replacement

You may want to check-out www.sqlnotes.net, where you can download
free beta version of an Ecco-like application, SQLNotes. It has been
discussed here a number of times and approx 65 ecco users were part
of beta01.
You get the outline/grid feature of Ecco, plus row and column calc
and 2-pane mode with full-featured HTML Editor (for large text
blocks) automatically linked to each item. Data is saved in an open-
format database, allowing inter-application links

Pierre
--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "John" <***@...> wrote:
>
> Well, just in case there are any software mogul-wanna be's here.
I'm
> yet another long-time ECCO Pro user lurking here for the odd
tip/trick
> that will keep me up and running (now on VISTA). And I would buy
an
> ECCO update or replacement (if you're trying to guesstimate the
market.)
>
> Like others, I currently use ECCO mostly as a repository of
important
> facts, dates, numbers, memories, etc. But I do add to it, and
> sometimes clean it up. I suspect everybody has a requirement for
> something like it. I occasionally wonder (though it's not keeping
me
> up at night), how non-ECCO users organize all the stuff I have in
ECCO
> outlines ...
>
> Thanks for Group contributors, and for keeping ECCO viable.
>
> Best,
>
> John
>
>
> --- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, "waschbar" <waschbar@> wrote:
> >
> > It would be funny to make a list of all of everybody who has said
> they are going to produce an Ecco Successor. Not to mention the
> effort to get NetManage to release the Ecco code for open-source
> development. Not one of these efforts has succeeded yet! Here we
are
> in 2007, the 10-year anniversary of Netmanage's Ecco shutdown.
> >
> > Well, it could be worse. There are still people waiting for the
> successor to Lotus Agenda, which never even made it to Windows!
> >
> > > Phil
> > > Are you around? Or is anyone around that knows anything about
this?
> > >
> > > Did this project go any further or is it just another in a
decade
> > > long trail of Ecco follow-up dead ends. (Excuse my sarcasm
Phil, you
> > > don't owe us anything, of course you have other things to do.
But I
> > > can't help being disgusted with the continuous chain
of "monumental"
> > > announcements followed by a big brew ha ha and much hand
wringing,
> > > followed by either an immediate or a slow and torturous dead
end.
> > > AYE CARUMBA!)
> > >
> > > I am still astounded that in 10 years, nothing has developed
to be a
> > > successor for ECCO. As I have said, there are dozens of open
source
> > > projects that are dedicated to far less useful programs. Why
the
> > > heck didn't an Eccolike PIM ever get started on that basis
(without
> > > NM altogether...who needs them.). It baffles me to this day.
> > >
> > > I'm traumatized by a decade of this!
> >
>
Blue Jay
2007-08-05 16:18:17 UTC
Permalink
I used it 10 years ago - best program ever made. Now, a few jobs later, I
find I need to use it again - but I can't remember how to use it. Are there
any tutorial anywhere?

At 11:41 AM 8/5/2007, John wrote:
>Well, just in case there are any software mogul-wanna be's here. I'm
>yet another long-time ECCO Pro user lurking here for the odd tip/trick
> that will keep me up and running (now on VISTA). And I would buy an
>ECCO update or replacement (if you're trying to guesstimate the market.)
>
>Like others, I currently use ECCO mostly as a repository of important
>facts, dates, numbers, memories, etc. But I do add to it, and
>sometimes clean it up. I suspect everybody has a requirement for
>something like it. I occasionally wonder (though it's not keeping me
>up at night), how non-ECCO users organize all the stuff I have in ECCO
>outlines ...
Stanley Greenstein
2007-05-24 19:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Pierre,

It sounds like a wonderful thing that you have done, and I hope it works.

Just a suggestion that maybe you have already considered: Wouldn't those of us loyal, current Ecco users who are members of this list be logical Beta Testers for you.

You tell us that some people, including you, are already using your new application. Would you not want those of us who know best and love most Ecco, to be also among your testers?

Stanley Greenstein


----- Original Message ----
From: Pierre Paul Landry <ppl32-***@public.gmane.org>
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:43:16 PM
Subject: [eccopro] Re: New PIM is coming - SQL Notes for Office

Some things small, some more important. Other examples of
improvements. Searches are a pain in Ecco. You could search in items
but and/or were not permitted. If you searched in items and columns,
it messed up the search view columns... In SQLNotes, you have all
control. There are actually many ways to search. The most useful one
presents you with a small form where you enter the text ( AND is
assumed when a comma is encountered) , The field type (text, number,
date, ...), the list of fields to search (leave blank to search all,
the source view and the destination view. If the results is not quite
right, you can edit the filter SQL string to suit your need. It's not
called SQLNotes for nothing.

Filter are a mix-bag. Too UI intensive to my taste. Hard to manage
ANDs and ORs effectively for complex filters. In fact, some of the
features were removed from 3.x to 4.0 when that part of the UI was
updated. SQLNotes is nearly limitless in its filtering capabilities
and the filter content is clearly shown.

Sorting was also a pain, since Ecco did not remember sorts. When new
items are added, one must always repeat the search. If the search is
on many columns, one must repeat for each column in reverse order
(fun!) In SQLNotes, multi-field sorts are stored and clearly
displayed.

Phone dialing in Ecco was OK as long as you worked at the same place
all the time. Otherwise, as far as I know since I did not use that
feature much, it was not easy to manage when to dial 1, area codes,
etc. SQLNotes uses TAPI rules, so just change your location and voilà
all dialed numbers are changed. SQLNotes also searches all fields
(using REGEXP) to find anything that looks like a phone number. In
the item but also in parents (yes, and it is a great feature
believe). Just set person A to be a child of Company B and it will
find company B phone numbers.

Last for now is item information. In Ecco, one is left in the dark as
to when an item was created, when a value as changed, by who, etc. In
SQLNotes, this information is readily available, on a field by field
basis. And every change is immediately save in the DB, field by
field, so a system crash (or power failure) is no problem. Nothing is
lost, in Ecco, it all depends on your auto-save frequency.

Pierre

--- In ***@yahoogroups .com, "r634718" <***@... > wrote:
>
> I agree with your assessment Pierre. And I can see you have an
> excellent grasp of Ecco and its shortcomings as well as a good
> knowledge of the technicals. I'm impressed with your expertise.
>
> But, even so, I'd have to say that other very talented and Ecco
> savvy people were, in the end, not able to pull it off. Make me a
> believer, show us the product. I'm willing to believe!
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups .com, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Like I said earlier, I'm a long time user of Ecco. In designing
> > SQLNotes, I always compare with Ecco, to reproduce its behaviour
> and
> > improve on it when I find it deficient. For example, the item
> display
> > is very rigid in Ecco. Items on the left, columns on the right.
> > Wordwrap only on the items. No way to select columns. These
> > limitations are all gone in SQLNotes. You are totally free to
> place
> > the items column where you want and select any set of columns. In
> > fact, the concept of the item, often confusing to users does not
> need
> > to be displayed. The Items columns is just line any other
columns.
> >
> > Also, Ecco was weak in terms of computations, and I/O. These are
> gone
> > too. You can access a view from any tools that can read an ODBC
> data
> > source (i.e. Access, Excel or other non-microsoft soft). The big
> > point here, is that data is not locked in SQLNotes and users that
> > don't have it can be made to have access (read-only of course) to
> the
> > data using standard tools. A secretary can for example do a mail-
> > merge of SQLNotes data without having a licence, just using Word.
> Co-
> > workers can also see the info that you make public.
> >
> > These were weak points in Ecco. There are numerous other ones
> which
> > I'm willing to discuss in this forum (multiple parents, context
> > parent display, etc)
> >
> > Ecco had a nice UI, but when using it a lot, some aspects were
> > limiting.
> >
> > Have a great day
> >
> > Pierre
> >
> > p.s. To all, I'm available to chat on yahoo messenger






____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
Pierre Paul Landry
2007-05-24 19:53:04 UTC
Permalink
By experience, it is best to keep initial testers to a small number.
They get to know the software well and can comment. Too many testers
and I would not be able to develop anymore! I'd just be answering e-
mails.

A little more patience.

Pierre

--- In eccopro-***@public.gmane.org, Stanley Greenstein <***@...>
wrote:
>
> Pierre,
>
> It sounds like a wonderful thing that you have done, and I hope it
works.
>
> Just a suggestion that maybe you have already considered: Wouldn't
those of us loyal, current Ecco users who are members of this list be
logical Beta Testers for you.
>
> You tell us that some people, including you, are already using your
new application. Would you not want those of us who know best and
love most Ecco, to be also among your testers?
>
> Stanley Greenstein
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Pierre Paul Landry <***@...>
> To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:43:16 PM
> Subject: [eccopro] Re: New PIM is coming - SQL Notes for Office
>
> Some things small, some more important. Other examples of
> improvements. Searches are a pain in Ecco. You could search in
items
> but and/or were not permitted. If you searched in items and
columns,
> it messed up the search view columns... In SQLNotes, you have all
> control. There are actually many ways to search. The most useful
one
> presents you with a small form where you enter the text ( AND is
> assumed when a comma is encountered) , The field type (text,
number,
> date, ...), the list of fields to search (leave blank to search
all,
> the source view and the destination view. If the results is not
quite
> right, you can edit the filter SQL string to suit your need. It's
not
> called SQLNotes for nothing.
>
> Filter are a mix-bag. Too UI intensive to my taste. Hard to manage
> ANDs and ORs effectively for complex filters. In fact, some of the
> features were removed from 3.x to 4.0 when that part of the UI was
> updated. SQLNotes is nearly limitless in its filtering capabilities
> and the filter content is clearly shown.
>
> Sorting was also a pain, since Ecco did not remember sorts. When
new
> items are added, one must always repeat the search. If the search
is
> on many columns, one must repeat for each column in reverse order
> (fun!) In SQLNotes, multi-field sorts are stored and clearly
> displayed.
>
> Phone dialing in Ecco was OK as long as you worked at the same
place
> all the time. Otherwise, as far as I know since I did not use that
> feature much, it was not easy to manage when to dial 1, area codes,
> etc. SQLNotes uses TAPI rules, so just change your location and
voilà
> all dialed numbers are changed. SQLNotes also searches all fields
> (using REGEXP) to find anything that looks like a phone number. In
> the item but also in parents (yes, and it is a great feature
> believe). Just set person A to be a child of Company B and it will
> find company B phone numbers.
>
> Last for now is item information. In Ecco, one is left in the dark
as
> to when an item was created, when a value as changed, by who, etc.
In
> SQLNotes, this information is readily available, on a field by
field
> basis. And every change is immediately save in the DB, field by
> field, so a system crash (or power failure) is no problem. Nothing
is
> lost, in Ecco, it all depends on your auto-save frequency.
>
> Pierre
>
> --- In ***@yahoogroups .com, "r634718" <r634718@ > wrote:
> >
> > I agree with your assessment Pierre. And I can see you have an
> > excellent grasp of Ecco and its shortcomings as well as a good
> > knowledge of the technicals. I'm impressed with your expertise.
> >
> > But, even so, I'd have to say that other very talented and Ecco
> > savvy people were, in the end, not able to pull it off. Make me a
> > believer, show us the product. I'm willing to believe!
> >
> > --- In ***@yahoogroups .com, "Pierre Paul Landry" <ppl32@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Like I said earlier, I'm a long time user of Ecco. In designing
> > > SQLNotes, I always compare with Ecco, to reproduce its
behaviour
> > and
> > > improve on it when I find it deficient. For example, the item
> > display
> > > is very rigid in Ecco. Items on the left, columns on the right.
> > > Wordwrap only on the items. No way to select columns. These
> > > limitations are all gone in SQLNotes. You are totally free to
> > place
> > > the items column where you want and select any set of columns.
In
> > > fact, the concept of the item, often confusing to users does
not
> > need
> > > to be displayed. The Items columns is just line any other
> columns.
> > >
> > > Also, Ecco was weak in terms of computations, and I/O. These
are
> > gone
> > > too. You can access a view from any tools that can read an ODBC
> > data
> > > source (i.e. Access, Excel or other non-microsoft soft). The
big
> > > point here, is that data is not locked in SQLNotes and users
that
> > > don't have it can be made to have access (read-only of course)
to
> > the
> > > data using standard tools. A secretary can for example do a
mail-
> > > merge of SQLNotes data without having a licence, just using
Word.
> > Co-
> > > workers can also see the info that you make public.
> > >
> > > These were weak points in Ecco. There are numerous other ones
> > which
> > > I'm willing to discuss in this forum (multiple parents, context
> > > parent display, etc)
> > >
> > > Ecco had a nice UI, but when using it a lot, some aspects were
> > > limiting.
> > >
> > > Have a great day
> > >
> > > Pierre
> > >
> > > p.s. To all, I'm available to chat on yahoo messenger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers
from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
Doug Essinger-Hileman
2007-05-29 10:23:52 UTC
Permalink
On 29 May 2007 at 0:07, Don Johnson wrote:

> Well, talk of an ecco-like PIM is interesting, and if it actually
> becomes more than talk, it might be interesting to check out...
>
> But this is the eccopro list. Aren't we getting a good bit off topic
> at this point??

Off-topic, perhaps, Don. But I think there is enough of a connection,
and enough of a tradition on this list of talking about a "successor"
to allow the conversation to continue.

Doug
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