Discussion:
Why so few PIMs support hierarchized to-do's?
frdtheman
2006-11-26 17:06:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi

While checking out a few PIMs this week, once again, I've been
confronted with this very puzzling thing: Why do so few PIM's offer
hierarchized to-do's like Ecco, and only stick to one-dimensional to-
do-'s?

At best, they only let you group items in a group, at worst, they
require you to prepend a subject, eg.

Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds - NYT
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds - CraigsList
Buy appartment - 2 - Check out neighborhood
etc.

Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?

Fred.
journey
2006-11-26 20:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Microsoft Outlook has dominated the PIM area so much that it's hard for a
company with a good product to make inroads. This is for corporations and
for individuals. Netmanage probably did the right thing to cut their
losses, and even the most innovative program would have a hard time eeking
out a product. In addition, with handhelds and Smart Phones, an application
is needed that would also work on the portable device. Therefore, there is
often a "hybrid" approach. For instance, on the Palm one can use Datebk6 or
Agendus for a calendaring app, and Bonsai for an outline app that has
optional links to tasks, and a lot of other nice features. Bonsai is a
superb desktop application and sync's wonderfully with the Palm. For Pocket
PC users, there is List Pro, other list managers, and the main PIM's have
implemeted some clumsy hierarchical task management.

If Microsoft Outlook would have used Franklin Covey style task priorities,
that would be good enough for me.

Another product, Info Select at www.miclog.com is incredible. Check it out.
When Ecco shut down, they welcomed Ecco users, and it's the closest thing
I've found to a robust information management tool, including date ticklers
and a thousand other features.

Journey


_____

From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
frdtheman
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:07 AM
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [SPAM] [eccopro] Why so few PIMs support hierarchized to-do's?



Hi

While checking out a few PIMs this week, once again, I've been
confronted with this very puzzling thing: Why do so few PIM's offer
hierarchized to-do's like Ecco, and only stick to one-dimensional to-
do-'s?

At best, they only let you group items in a group, at worst, they
require you to prepend a subject, eg.

Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds - NYT
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds - CraigsList
Buy appartment - 2 - Check out neighborhood
etc.

Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?

Fred.
frdtheman
2006-11-26 21:48:15 UTC
Permalink
In addition, with handhelds and Smart Phones, an application is
needed that would also work on the portable device. Therefore, there
is often a "hybrid" approach.

Maybe that's what it is. But even the PIM's that don't sync with hand-
helds stick to the one-dimensional ListView widget.

I haven't checked out the products you mentionned (yes, they've been
in my to-do for a month ;-)), but
1. could you give us a summary of what each does, especially compared
to Ecco, and how they work together, if they do
2. what applications have a Windows interface? Inputing data in a Palm
is tedious, so I mostly use it to read data on the go, but input data
on a PC.

Looks like InfoSelect is just a Windows Explorer with write access on
the data:

Loading Image...

It's pretty removed from Ecco's outliner :-/

Thanks.
journey
2006-11-27 04:14:33 UTC
Permalink
I can't write up a summary -- my mother is in hospice or maybe I could
provide you with more. Don't underestimate Info Select. I recommend that
you use the trial and during that time explore some of its features.

Journey


_____

From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
frdtheman
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 3:48 PM
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] [eccopro] Why so few PIMs support hierarchized
to-do's?
In addition, with handhelds and Smart Phones, an application is
needed that would also work on the portable device. Therefore, there
is often a "hybrid" approach.

Maybe that's what it is. But even the PIM's that don't sync with hand-
helds stick to the one-dimensional ListView widget.

I haven't checked out the products you mentionned (yes, they've been
in my to-do for a month ;-)), but
1. could you give us a summary of what each does, especially compared
to Ecco, and how they work together, if they do
2. what applications have a Windows interface? Inputing data in a Palm
is tedious, so I mostly use it to read data on the go, but input data
on a PC.

Looks like InfoSelect is just a Windows Explorer with write access on
the data:

http://www.kevinfra <http://www.kevinfrank.com/info_select_02.gif>
nk.com/info_select_02.gif

It's pretty removed from Ecco's outliner :-/

Thanks.
T***@public.gmane.org
2006-11-26 23:29:29 UTC
Permalink
Great question, Fred! My guess is that it has little or nothing to do with
techno-appliances or software. I think your question hit the answer nail on the
head -- it's PEOPLE!

A friend I've made through this group just queried out loud on the phone to
me a couple of days ago about why people like me hate 'standard,' widely used
programs like Microsoft and love ECCO. At the time, he was helping me -- via
long distance -- use my Retrospect software in conjunction with an external
harddrive. We both were frustrated by some of the software's assumptions. He
opined that basic users wouldn't have as much trouble as we were having. I
agreed.

I think that some us think 'too much' or in 'too much' structure. I know
that my brain works according to a structure that's quite similar in nature to
ECCO. I thank God for ECCO frequently, limitations and all. The ability to
store my thoughts in a computer and print them out is very important to me.
Having a program like ECCO enables me to do so in a way that doesn't twist my
brain into a pretzel. I really appreciate that!

I literally can picture my brain dictating a 3D software image in its very
own unique structure -- in the future. Until that future day arrives, I'm
probably "stick" with ECCO.

And, how's this for a segway?

I'd really appreciate it if you folks would share how you 'see' (picture in
your heads) time. This is a topic I find fascinating. Apparently, I don't
'see' time like most people. And, most people I ask (non-ECCO type people, for
sure) claim they don't even 'see' time. If I didn't see it, I frankly don't
know how I could get through it! Which means, I'd be at a complete stand-still
in my life. In analogous terms, if I couldn't envision where my route to
destination is taking me, via ground or air transportation, I wouldn't go, would
you? I see the map in my head.

With regard to time, I likewise need to see where I'm going. And, I need to
see where I've been to know where I am. Time -- Future and Past -- has a
particular picture for me. Ironically (compared to 'normal' people), I have great
difficulty picturing the Present. To me, it essentially doesn't exist,
because it's in between Past and Future. It doesn't exist for me except in that
context. As the ultimate In Between, it's really a Naught.

I hope that future software calendar developers find a way to create a more
3D version of time. All my systems of prioritization get bogged down, even in
ECCO, because I can't 'see' how to get things done in two-dimensions. This is
because I see the primary limitation to prioritizing as Time. Money and
other resources certainly come into play, but the primary delimiter is Time.

When I reformat an hour, a day, a week or a month from what I've entered
(usually laboriously and meticulously) in ECCO into my 3D version of it, I can
'see' where to fit in what I need or want to get done. If I don't do this, I'm
quite literally stuck. I think this is why I tend to keep going back to the
drawing board, literally, and write/draw out my priorities when it gets down
to crunch time. They're still in 2D, but they more approximate something I can
envision than ECCO facilitates. I get rather aggravated that I'm duplicating
effort going back and forth between trying to reconfigure my data in ECCO,
reconfiguring what I have on paper, and then reconciling the two. This seems
like a waste of time; however, if I don't do it, and I'm looking at my life
objectively, I can see that it tends to slow down, or get bogged down. I tend
to slip off into too many directions and lose sight of my goals. And, yes, I
do 'see' my goals. I also 'see' the roads I need to take to reach them, bumps
and all. I just see this like a movie in my head, not in a 2D format on my
computer. The bumps tend to be literal gray areas until I reach them. Often
times, I find that defining the bump leads directly to a decision as to how to
get past it -- and, I tend to envision this in terms like blasting it apart,
going around it, over it or through it, getting someone else to move it out of
my way, etc.

Back to how I 'see' time -- I see weeks much more clearly than days or
months, months more clearly than days. An hour, sadly, is quite a nebulous concept
for me. Instead of fighting myself (more than I already do), I try to
structure my priorities into what I think I can get done in a week. I can describe
for you, fairly literally, how I 'see' a week, because I see them so much
more clearly than other blocks of time. They start on Sunday, are elliptical,
ending on Saturday, and each Saturday connects with the Sunday that follows it.
The ellipses spiral upward beginning on the next Sunday. The ellipses,
therefore, aren't flat. They're not like the typical monthly calendar which shows
weeks stacked on top of each other. My geometry terminology is somewhat
lacking here, but the spirals are further apart in the near future, and they get
tighter as time progresses. I think this is because I can 'see' getting more
done in the near future than in the distant future. Of course, I often try to
stuff a superhuman amount of stuff to get done into the next week or two that
I see in my head.

I have a much more linear 'view' of a day, and I think that's part of why I
can't get as much done within the scope of a week if I plan it day-by-day as
opposed to as a whole week.

When I do picture my time -- my appointments and tasks -- in a daily, weekly
or monthly view, either in my head, on the computer or on a printout, I find
that adding color to various categories (blue for business, green for fun,
pink for doctor's appts, purple for my son's activities, orange for standing
appts, red for anything highlighted, etc. -- it's too bad I've had to tweak my
system to conform to ECCO's colors) makes it more functional for me. My ECCO
friend was the first to make me aware that color is a dimension, much as an x
or y or z axis. Now, it makes much more sense to me why I feel compelled to
add color to my calendars, no matter where they are or their format.

I suppose the 'new' virtual reality tools, holograms and such would enable
the kind of calendaring, tasking and prioritizing software I'd find most
useful. Since the bulk of you folks seem a lot more techie than I am, I question
why we seem to be struggling as a group to find an alternative to ECCO that
will 'fit' our particular needs. Already, we've been waiting for many years for
an improved version/alternative, and the general consensus seems to be there
isn't one. If we wait just a few more, I 'foresee' a software program that
truly will meet our needs. How does that famous phrase from "Field of Dreams"
go? "If you build it, they will come?" Well, I predict, "If you see it --
Time, a block of Time, a Task, an Appointment, a Priority -- you'll be able to
replicate it in some form of system that will allow you to log it, manipulate
it, recall it or 'virtually' even change it."

Joule

In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:19:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
frdtheman-/***@public.gmane.org writes:

Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?
Friedhelm Dohmann
2006-11-27 03:32:48 UTC
Permalink
Great thoughts Joule, thanks for sharing.

Future is the next second, blessed is who can keep the Present.

Friedhelm
"http://www.compusol.org/ecco"
Post by T***@public.gmane.org
Great question, Fred! My guess is that it has little or nothing to do
with techno-appliances or software. I think your question hit the
answer nail on the head -- it's PEOPLE!
A friend I've made through this group just queried out loud on the
phone to me a couple of days ago about why people like me hate
'standard,' widely used programs like Microsoft and love ECCO. At the
time, he was helping me -- via long distance -- use my Retrospect
software in conjunction with an external harddrive. We both were
frustrated by some of the software's assumptions. He opined that basic
users wouldn't have as much trouble as we were having. I agreed.
I think that some us think 'too much' or in 'too much' structure. I
know that my brain works according to a structure that's quite similar
in nature to ECCO. I thank God for ECCO frequently, limitations and
all. The ability to store my thoughts in a computer and print them
out is very important to me. Having a program like ECCO enables me to
do so in a way that doesn't twist my brain into a pretzel. I really
appreciate that!
I literally can picture my brain dictating a 3D software image in its
very own unique structure -- in the future. Until that future day
arrives, I'm probably "stick" with ECCO.
And, how's this for a segway?
I'd really appreciate it if you folks would share how you 'see'
(picture in your heads) time. This is a topic I find fascinating.
Apparently, I don't 'see' time like most people. And, most people I
ask (non-ECCO type people, for sure) claim they don't even 'see' time.
If I didn't see it, I frankly don't know how I could get through it!
Which means, I'd be at a complete stand-still in my life. In analogous
terms, if I couldn't envision where my route to destination is taking
me, via ground or air transportation, I wouldn't go, would you? I see
the map in my head.
With regard to time, I likewise need to see where I'm going. And, I
need to see where I've been to know where I am. Time -- Future and
Past -- has a particular picture for me. Ironically (compared to
'normal' people), I have great difficulty picturing the Present. To
me, it essentially doesn't exist, because it's in between Past and
Future. It doesn't exist for me except in that context. As the
ultimate In Between, it's really a Naught.
I hope that future software calendar developers find a way to create a
more 3D version of time. All my systems of prioritization get bogged
down, even in ECCO, because I can't 'see' how to get things done in
two-dimensions. This is because I see the primary limitation to
prioritizing as Time. Money and other resources certainly come into
play, but the primary delimiter is Time.
When I reformat an hour, a day, a week or a month from what I've
entered (usually laboriously and meticulously) in ECCO into my 3D
version of it, I can 'see' where to fit in what I need or want to get
done. If I don't do this, I'm quite literally stuck. I think this is
why I tend to keep going back to the drawing board, literally, and
write/draw out my priorities when it gets down to crunch time. They're
still in 2D, but they more approximate something I can envision than
ECCO facilitates. I get rather aggravated that I'm duplicating effort
going back and forth between trying to reconfigure my data in ECCO,
reconfiguring what I have on paper, and then reconciling the two. This
seems like a waste of time; however, if I don't do it, and I'm looking
at my life objectively, I can see that it tends to slow down, or get
bogged down. I tend to slip off into too many directions and lose
sight of my goals. And, yes, I do 'see' my goals. I also 'see' the
roads I need to take to reach them, bumps and all. I just see this
like a movie in my head, not in a 2D format on my computer. The bumps
tend to be literal gray areas until I reach them. Often times, I find
that defining the bump leads directly to a decision as to how to get
past it -- and, I tend to envision this in terms like blasting it
apart, going around it, over it or through it, getting someone else to
move it out of my way, etc.
Back to how I 'see' time -- I see weeks much more clearly than days or
months, months more clearly than days. An hour, sadly, is quite a
nebulous concept for me. Instead of fighting myself (more than I
already do), I try to structure my priorities into what I think I can
get done in a week. I can describe for you, fairly literally, how I
'see' a week, because I see them so much more clearly than other
blocks of time. They start on Sunday, are elliptical, ending on
Saturday, and each Saturday connects with the Sunday that follows it.
The ellipses spiral upward beginning on the next Sunday. The ellipses,
therefore, aren't flat. They're not like the typical monthly calendar
which shows weeks stacked on top of each other. My geometry
terminology is somewhat lacking here, but the spirals are further
apart in the near future, and they get tighter as time progresses. I
think this is because I can 'see' getting more done in the near future
than in the distant future. Of course, I often try to stuff a
superhuman amount of stuff to get done into the next week or two that
I see in my head.
I have a much more linear 'view' of a day, and I think that's part of
why I can't get as much done within the scope of a week if I plan it
day-by-day as opposed to as a whole week.
When I do picture my time -- my appointments and tasks -- in a daily,
weekly or monthly view, either in my head, on the computer or on a
printout, I find that adding color to various categories (blue for
business, green for fun, pink for doctor's appts, purple for my son's
activities, orange for standing appts, red for anything highlighted,
etc. -- it's too bad I've had to tweak my system to conform to ECCO's
colors) makes it more functional for me. My ECCO friend was the first
to make me aware that color is a dimension, much as an x or y or z
axis. Now, it makes much more sense to me why I feel compelled to add
color to my calendars, no matter where they are or their format.
I suppose the 'new' virtual reality tools, holograms and such would
enable the kind of calendaring, tasking and prioritizing software I'd
find most useful. Since the bulk of you folks seem a lot more techie
than I am, I question why we seem to be struggling as a group to find
an alternative to ECCO that will 'fit' our particular needs. Already,
we've been waiting for many years for an improved version/alternative,
and the general consensus seems to be there isn't one. If we wait just
a few more, I 'foresee' a software program that truly will meet our
needs. How does that famous phrase from "Field of Dreams" go? "If you
build it, they will come?" Well, I predict, "If you see it -- Time, a
block of Time, a Task, an Appointment, a Priority -- you'll be able to
replicate it in some form of system that will allow you to log
it, manipulate it, recall it or 'virtually' even change it."
Joule
In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:19:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?
journey
2006-11-27 04:17:55 UTC
Permalink
I think I see time as in how much time it would take to read your long post
!!! Please don't take offense, I am often told that I can analyze the hell
out of anything but I think I've met a kindred spirit.


_____

From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
TenacularDogs-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:29 PM
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [eccopro] Why so few PIMs support hierarchized to-do's?





Great question, Fred! My guess is that it has little or nothing to do with
techno-appliances or software. I think your question hit the answer nail on
the head -- it's PEOPLE!

A friend I've made through this group just queried out loud on the phone to
me a couple of days ago about why people like me hate 'standard,' widely
used programs like Microsoft and love ECCO. At the time, he was helping me
-- via long distance -- use my Retrospect software in conjunction with an
external harddrive. We both were frustrated by some of the software's
assumptions. He opined that basic users wouldn't have as much trouble as we
were having. I agreed.

I think that some us think 'too much' or in 'too much' structure. I know
that my brain works according to a structure that's quite similar in nature
to ECCO. I thank God for ECCO frequently, limitations and all. The ability
to store my thoughts in a computer and print them out is very important to
me. Having a program like ECCO enables me to do so in a way that doesn't
twist my brain into a pretzel. I really appreciate that!

I literally can picture my brain dictating a 3D software image in its very
own unique structure -- in the future. Until that future day arrives, I'm
probably "stick" with ECCO.

And, how's this for a segway?

I'd really appreciate it if you folks would share how you 'see' (picture in
your heads) time. This is a topic I find fascinating. Apparently, I don't
'see' time like most people. And, most people I ask (non-ECCO type people,
for sure) claim they don't even 'see' time. If I didn't see it, I frankly
don't know how I could get through it! Which means, I'd be at a complete
stand-still in my life. In analogous terms, if I couldn't envision where my
route to destination is taking me, via ground or air transportation, I
wouldn't go, would you? I see the map in my head.

With regard to time, I likewise need to see where I'm going. And, I need to
see where I've been to know where I am. Time -- Future and Past -- has a
particular picture for me. Ironically (compared to 'normal' people), I have
great difficulty picturing the Present. To me, it essentially doesn't exist,
because it's in between Past and Future. It doesn't exist for me except in
that context. As the ultimate In Between, it's really a Naught.

I hope that future software calendar developers find a way to create a more
3D version of time. All my systems of prioritization get bogged down, even
in ECCO, because I can't 'see' how to get things done in two-dimensions.
This is because I see the primary limitation to prioritizing as Time. Money
and other resources certainly come into play, but the primary delimiter is
Time.

When I reformat an hour, a day, a week or a month from what I've entered
(usually laboriously and meticulously) in ECCO into my 3D version of it, I
can 'see' where to fit in what I need or want to get done. If I don't do
this, I'm quite literally stuck. I think this is why I tend to keep going
back to the drawing board, literally, and write/draw out my priorities when
it gets down to crunch time. They're still in 2D, but they more approximate
something I can envision than ECCO facilitates. I get rather aggravated that
I'm duplicating effort going back and forth between trying to reconfigure my
data in ECCO, reconfiguring what I have on paper, and then reconciling the
two. This seems like a waste of time; however, if I don't do it, and I'm
looking at my life objectively, I can see that it tends to slow down, or get
bogged down. I tend to slip off into too many directions and lose sight of
my goals. And, yes, I do 'see' my goals. I also 'see' the roads I need to
take to reach them, bumps and all. I just see this like a movie in my head,
not in a 2D format on my computer. The bumps tend to be literal gray areas
until I reach them. Often times, I find that defining the bump leads
directly to a decision as to how to get past it -- and, I tend to envision
this in terms like blasting it apart, going around it, over it or through
it, getting someone else to move it out of my way, etc.

Back to how I 'see' time -- I see weeks much more clearly than days or
months, months more clearly than days. An hour, sadly, is quite a nebulous
concept for me. Instead of fighting myself (more than I already do), I try
to structure my priorities into what I think I can get done in a week. I can
describe for you, fairly literally, how I 'see' a week, because I see them
so much more clearly than other blocks of time. They start on Sunday, are
elliptical, ending on Saturday, and each Saturday connects with the Sunday
that follows it. The ellipses spiral upward beginning on the next Sunday.
The ellipses, therefore, aren't flat. They're not like the typical monthly
calendar which shows weeks stacked on top of each other. My geometry
terminology is somewhat lacking here, but the spirals are further apart in
the near future, and they get tighter as time progresses. I think this is
because I can 'see' getting more done in the near future than in the distant
future. Of course, I often try to stuff a superhuman amount of stuff to get
done into the next week or two that I see in my head.

I have a much more linear 'view' of a day, and I think that's part of why I
can't get as much done within the scope of a week if I plan it day-by-day as
opposed to as a whole week.

When I do picture my time -- my appointments and tasks -- in a daily, weekly
or monthly view, either in my head, on the computer or on a printout, I find
that adding color to various categories (blue for business, green for fun,
pink for doctor's appts, purple for my son's activities, orange for standing
appts, red for anything highlighted, etc. -- it's too bad I've had to tweak
my system to conform to ECCO's colors) makes it more functional for me. My
ECCO friend was the first to make me aware that color is a dimension, much
as an x or y or z axis. Now, it makes much more sense to me why I feel
compelled to add color to my calendars, no matter where they are or their
format.

I suppose the 'new' virtual reality tools, holograms and such would enable
the kind of calendaring, tasking and prioritizing software I'd find most
useful. Since the bulk of you folks seem a lot more techie than I am, I
question why we seem to be struggling as a group to find an alternative to
ECCO that will 'fit' our particular needs. Already, we've been waiting for
many years for an improved version/alternative, and the general consensus
seems to be there isn't one. If we wait just a few more, I 'foresee' a
software program that truly will meet our needs. How does that famous phrase
from "Field of Dreams" go? "If you build it, they will come?" Well, I
predict, "If you see it -- Time, a block of Time, a Task, an Appointment, a
Priority -- you'll be able to replicate it in some form of system that will
allow you to log it, manipulate it, recall it or 'virtually' even change
it."

Joule

In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:19:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
frdtheman-/***@public.gmane.org writes:

Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?
DrDon
2006-11-27 05:42:01 UTC
Permalink
As a composer, I view time as relative and experiential/perceptual. The
perception of time can be manipulated. To me, that is more real than
dividing it up according to the world turning. Of course, this has
little to do with getting things done. But perhaps you've experienced
the phenomenon when you're so focused on something (a task or activity)
that time becomes completely irrelevant?
Post by T***@public.gmane.org
Great question, Fred! My guess is that it has little or nothing to do
with techno-appliances or software. I think your question hit the
answer nail on the head -- it's PEOPLE!
A friend I've made through this group just queried out loud on the
phone to me a couple of days ago about why people like me hate
'standard,' widely used programs like Microsoft and love ECCO. At the
time, he was helping me -- via long distance -- use my Retrospect
software in conjunction with an external harddrive. We both were
frustrated by some of the software's assumptions. He opined that basic
users wouldn't have as much trouble as we were having. I agreed.
I think that some us think 'too much' or in 'too much' structure. I
know that my brain works according to a structure that's quite similar
in nature to ECCO. I thank God for ECCO frequently, limitations and
all. The ability to store my thoughts in a computer and print them
out is very important to me. Having a program like ECCO enables me to
do so in a way that doesn't twist my brain into a pretzel. I really
appreciate that!
I literally can picture my brain dictating a 3D software image in its
very own unique structure -- in the future. Until that future day
arrives, I'm probably "stick" with ECCO.
And, how's this for a segway?
I'd really appreciate it if you folks would share how you 'see'
(picture in your heads) time. This is a topic I find fascinating.
Apparently, I don't 'see' time like most people. And, most people I
ask (non-ECCO type people, for sure) claim they don't even 'see' time.
If I didn't see it, I frankly don't know how I could get through it!
Which means, I'd be at a complete stand-still in my life. In analogous
terms, if I couldn't envision where my route to destination is taking
me, via ground or air transportation, I wouldn't go, would you? I see
the map in my head.
With regard to time, I likewise need to see where I'm going. And, I
need to see where I've been to know where I am. Time -- Future and
Past -- has a particular picture for me. Ironically (compared to
'normal' people), I have great difficulty picturing the Present. To
me, it essentially doesn't exist, because it's in between Past and
Future. It doesn't exist for me except in that context. As the
ultimate In Between, it's really a Naught.
I hope that future software calendar developers find a way to create a
more 3D version of time. All my systems of prioritization get bogged
down, even in ECCO, because I can't 'see' how to get things done in
two-dimensions. This is because I see the primary limitation to
prioritizing as Time. Money and other resources certainly come into
play, but the primary delimiter is Time.
When I reformat an hour, a day, a week or a month from what I've
entered (usually laboriously and meticulously) in ECCO into my 3D
version of it, I can 'see' where to fit in what I need or want to get
done. If I don't do this, I'm quite literally stuck. I think this is
why I tend to keep going back to the drawing board, literally, and
write/draw out my priorities when it gets down to crunch time. They're
still in 2D, but they more approximate something I can envision than
ECCO facilitates. I get rather aggravated that I'm duplicating effort
going back and forth between trying to reconfigure my data in ECCO,
reconfiguring what I have on paper, and then reconciling the two. This
seems like a waste of time; however, if I don't do it, and I'm looking
at my life objectively, I can see that it tends to slow down, or get
bogged down. I tend to slip off into too many directions and lose
sight of my goals. And, yes, I do 'see' my goals. I also 'see' the
roads I need to take to reach them, bumps and all. I just see this
like a movie in my head, not in a 2D format on my computer. The bumps
tend to be literal gray areas until I reach them. Often times, I find
that defining the bump leads directly to a decision as to how to get
past it -- and, I tend to envision this in terms like blasting it
apart, going around it, over it or through it, getting someone else to
move it out of my way, etc.
Back to how I 'see' time -- I see weeks much more clearly than days or
months, months more clearly than days. An hour, sadly, is quite a
nebulous concept for me. Instead of fighting myself (more than I
already do), I try to structure my priorities into what I think I can
get done in a week. I can describe for you, fairly literally, how I
'see' a week, because I see them so much more clearly than other
blocks of time. They start on Sunday, are elliptical, ending on
Saturday, and each Saturday connects with the Sunday that follows it.
The ellipses spiral upward beginning on the next Sunday. The ellipses,
therefore, aren't flat. They're not like the typical monthly calendar
which shows weeks stacked on top of each other. My geometry
terminology is somewhat lacking here, but the spirals are further
apart in the near future, and they get tighter as time progresses. I
think this is because I can 'see' getting more done in the near future
than in the distant future. Of course, I often try to stuff a
superhuman amount of stuff to get done into the next week or two that
I see in my head.
I have a much more linear 'view' of a day, and I think that's part of
why I can't get as much done within the scope of a week if I plan it
day-by-day as opposed to as a whole week.
When I do picture my time -- my appointments and tasks -- in a daily,
weekly or monthly view, either in my head, on the computer or on a
printout, I find that adding color to various categories (blue for
business, green for fun, pink for doctor's appts, purple for my son's
activities, orange for standing appts, red for anything highlighted,
etc. -- it's too bad I've had to tweak my system to conform to ECCO's
colors) makes it more functional for me. My ECCO friend was the first
to make me aware that color is a dimension, much as an x or y or z
axis. Now, it makes much more sense to me why I feel compelled to add
color to my calendars, no matter where they are or their format.
I suppose the 'new' virtual reality tools, holograms and such would
enable the kind of calendaring, tasking and prioritizing software I'd
find most useful. Since the bulk of you folks seem a lot more techie
than I am, I question why we seem to be struggling as a group to find
an alternative to ECCO that will 'fit' our particular needs. Already,
we've been waiting for many years for an improved version/alternative,
and the general consensus seems to be there isn't one. If we wait just
a few more, I 'foresee' a software program that truly will meet our
needs. How does that famous phrase from "Field of Dreams" go? "If you
build it, they will come?" Well, I predict, "If you see it -- Time, a
block of Time, a Task, an Appointment, a Priority -- you'll be able to
replicate it in some form of system that will allow you to log
it, manipulate it, recall it or 'virtually' even change it."
Joule
_In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:19:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?
--
žž.·Ž¯`·-.žž.·Ž¯`·-.žž.·Ž¯`·-.žž.·Ž¯`·.žž.

*Don **Diekneite*
(408) 799-6123
Friedhelm Dohmann
2006-11-27 10:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Like a premier basketball player, his moment between past and future -
when he is in "the zone".
.... But perhaps you've experienced the phenomenon when you're so
focused on something (a task or activity) that time becomes completely
irrelevant? ...
T***@public.gmane.org
2006-11-27 06:32:00 UTC
Permalink
I'm delighted that some of you have taken me up on my request that we share
how we view time. I happen to think this is critical to my use of ECCO and my
interest in an update or alternative to it. If however, my response to
"drdon" too off topic, I will understand. If anyone wants to e-mail me privately,
that's fine; but, I hope that those of you who respond to my initial request
will do so to the group, so that we might be able to glean something from a
getting-things-done point of view, whether that reaches a programmer
eventually or just our own work/think spaces. Since ECCOites seem to be such a rare
group of computer users, I suspect that there are commonalities in how we think
and process information. Perhaps we can help each other more if we better
understand how we process. I'm not sure if the 'ultimate' ECCO would ecco our
brains or be our proverbial worst nightmare, but I sure would like to know
what you others think about this. (If this kind of post isn't something you
don't want to read, then, please, just don't read it. Delete it.)

Thank-you, drdon, for your interesting response! Composer of -- music? What
type? For what instrument(s)?

If you find the 'time," I hope you'll elaborate on how you view it. And,
from your remark as to what's "more real," I get the feeling that your view of
reality also would be quite interesting.

As for intense focus, yes, I do that a lot, particularly when thinking and
writing. I find your comment about time becoming "completely irrelevant" a
very fascinating choice of words. I hadn't thought of the phenomenon as
rendering time "irrelevant." I guess that's where relativity comes into effect. Time
becomes irrelevant to me; but, unfortunately, not to the Outside World. This
relates to my eternal struggle to juggle personal priorities and the
priorities the Outside World inflicts on me. On one level, it makes a lot more sense
to work on a long-term project of the heart, with full focus and devotion,
that will rake in some big bucks eventually, in addition to lots of
self-gratification and perhaps usefulness to others, than to stay on top of what bills
need to be paid every darn month. It makes more sense to me to keep going on a
project while my motivation is high, which often supercedes all normal needs
to sleep or eat, than to stop abruptly for some appointment or task that
essentially means nothing to me.

I think that Covey's four quadrant theory of how to organize one's life
makes a lot of sense, until one really tries to do it. I always find that
everything that is urgent tends to lose its urgency once the proper window for
addressing it passes. And, what's important doesn't rise to the level I'd like
until there is urgency attached to it, as when it's screaming at me to get it
done (aka crisis or important deadline). So, all priorities, in my view, with my
apparent lack of discipline, are in a context, Covey-like or not, that is
relative to time, my mood, my goals, outside influences and a bunch of other
factors. Every time I try to confine my priorities to paper, particularly into
boxes (or Covey quadrants), or folders in ECCO, etc., it seems they're
outdated just as soon as I see them in recorded fashion. This then discourages me
from keeping up with recording them, which then gets me further disorganized,
which then gets me further away from 'staying on task.' And, whether that's a
good thing or a bad thing is all relative to whether it gets my goals/needs
met, which is a reflection of what I need to do for myself and what I need to
do for the Outside World.

With regard to ECCO, I seem to have more success in ecco'ing my brain with
Ticklers than I do with Notepads. I play around with this a lot; but, at the
moment, I have one file in which my Tickler folders are, from top to bottom:
POD (plan of the day), PRIORITIES, FOREFRONT (as in -- keep this in the
forefront of my consciousness), POSTPONED ITEMS, DAILY, SCHEDULED (I also have a
very detailed ECCO file in which I have all my appts), SetAppts, IN PROCESS,
RECURRING, and then some specific topic ones. My file had gotten unwieldy, so I
moved many of the specific topics into their own files/databases, and merely
refer to them in this primary file (so I won't forget to check the ancillary
files). The trick of making the Tickler view really work for me is to review
everything in it fairly often, and then either follow-through on an Item or
change its date forward in time. This way, I feel comfortable I'm not
forgetting something. It's always going to be in my 'list.' I can change priorities
by dragging an Item into a different folder, or moving it to a future date.
That seems to work better for me than giving it a "high, medium or low" type
designation in a priority Column.

Joule

In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:46:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
drdon-***@public.gmane.org writes:

As a composer, I view time as relative and experiential/As a composer, I
view time as relative and experiential/<WBR>perceptual. The perception of time
can be manipulated. To me, that is more real than dividing it up according to
the world turning. Of course, this has little to do with getting things done.
But perhaps you've experienced the phenomenon when you're so focused on
something (a
journey
2006-11-27 14:33:03 UTC
Permalink
OK, a day later, I am very interested in this topic. Because my mother is
in hospice, I'll only be able to write short posts. So, one thing about
time. I can look at a dirty kitchen for a week, feeling depressed that it
isn't done. Or, I can take 15 minutes and clean it. I have found a good
technique for me. I have little 16 minute segments. The first minute I
decide what to do with the remaining 15 minutes. Then, I do it, and see how
far I have gotten. It is amazing that I can get something done and then go
back to the timer and see 8 minutes left. Time is powerful if used well.

My thought for the day,

Journey


_____

From: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:eccopro-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
TenacularDogs-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:32 AM
To: eccopro-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [eccopro] Why so few PIMs support hierarchized to-do's?





I'm delighted that some of you have taken me up on my request that we share
how we view time. I happen to think this is critical to my use of ECCO and
my interest in an update or alternative to it. If however, my response to
"drdon" too off topic, I will understand. If anyone wants to e-mail me
privately, that's fine; but, I hope that those of you who respond to my
initial request will do so to the group, so that we might be able to glean
something from a getting-things-done point of view, whether that reaches a
programmer eventually or just our own work/think spaces. Since ECCOites seem
to be such a rare group of computer users, I suspect that there are
commonalities in how we think and process information. Perhaps we can help
each other more if we better understand how we process. I'm not sure if the
'ultimate' ECCO would ecco our brains or be our proverbial worst nightmare,
but I sure would like to know what you others think about this. (If this
kind of post isn't something you don't want to read, then, please, just
don't read it. Delete it.)

Thank-you, drdon, for your interesting response! Composer of -- music? What
type? For what instrument(s)?

If you find the 'time," I hope you'll elaborate on how you view it. And,
from your remark as to what's "more real," I get the feeling that your view
of reality also would be quite interesting.

As for intense focus, yes, I do that a lot, particularly when thinking and
writing. I find your comment about time becoming "completely irrelevant" a
very fascinating choice of words. I hadn't thought of the phenomenon as
rendering time "irrelevant." I guess that's where relativity comes into
effect. Time becomes irrelevant to me; but, unfortunately, not to the
Outside World. This relates to my eternal struggle to juggle personal
priorities and the priorities the Outside World inflicts on me. On one
level, it makes a lot more sense to work on a long-term project of the
heart, with full focus and devotion, that will rake in some big bucks
eventually, in addition to lots of self-gratification and perhaps usefulness
to others, than to stay on top of what bills need to be paid every darn
month. It makes more sense to me to keep going on a project while my
motivation is high, which often supercedes all normal needs to sleep or eat,
than to stop abruptly for some appointment or task that essentially means
nothing to me.

I think that Covey's four quadrant theory of how to organize one's life
makes a lot of sense, until one really tries to do it. I always find that
everything that is urgent tends to lose its urgency once the proper window
for addressing it passes. And, what's important doesn't rise to the level
I'd like until there is urgency attached to it, as when it's screaming at me
to get it done (aka crisis or important deadline). So, all priorities, in my
view, with my apparent lack of discipline, are in a context, Covey-like or
not, that is relative to time, my mood, my goals, outside influences and a
bunch of other factors. Every time I try to confine my priorities to paper,
particularly into boxes (or Covey quadrants), or folders in ECCO, etc., it
seems they're outdated just as soon as I see them in recorded fashion. This
then discourages me from keeping up with recording them, which then gets me
further disorganized, which then gets me further away from 'staying on
task.' And, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is all relative to
whether it gets my goals/needs met, which is a reflection of what I need to
do for myself and what I need to do for the Outside World.

With regard to ECCO, I seem to have more success in ecco'ing my brain with
Ticklers than I do with Notepads. I play around with this a lot; but, at the
moment, I have one file in which my Tickler folders are, from top to bottom:
POD (plan of the day), PRIORITIES, FOREFRONT (as in -- keep this in the
forefront of my consciousness), POSTPONED ITEMS, DAILY, SCHEDULED (I also
have a very detailed ECCO file in which I have all my appts), SetAppts, IN
PROCESS, RECURRING, and then some specific topic ones. My file had gotten
unwieldy, so I moved many of the specific topics into their own
files/databases, and merely refer to them in this primary file (so I won't
forget to check the ancillary files). The trick of making the Tickler view
really work for me is to review everything in it fairly often, and then
either follow-through on an Item or change its date forward in time. This
way, I feel comfortable I'm not forgetting something. It's always going to
be in my 'list.' I can change priorities by dragging an Item into a
different folder, or moving it to a future date. That seems to work better
for me than giving it a "high, medium or low" type designation in a priority
Column.

Joule

In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:46:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
drdon-***@public.gmane.org writes:

As a composer, I view time as relative and experiential/perceptual. The
perception of time can be manipulated. To me, that is more real than
dividing it up according to the world turning. Of course, this has little to
do with getting things done. But perhaps you've experienced the phenomenon
when you're so focused on something (a task or activity) that time becomes
completely irrelevant?
jameslbagwell
2006-12-15 04:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by T***@public.gmane.org
I'm delighted that some of you have taken me up on my request that
we share how we view time. I happen to think this is critical to my
use of ECCO and my interest in an update or alternative to it.

------

Thank you for the two posts about time perceptions, which I have not
digested yet but plan to print out and read carefully. Posts like
yours are very useful and, in my view, appropriate because they help
others think about how they do or might use this powerful tool to
accomplish real tasks. I learn things reading the pit-crew posts, but
your post was like hearing from a driver.

My initial reply to your solicitation is that I do not 'see' time in
my head very well at all without forcing myself to think about it, and
even then need a visual aid on paper or screen _and_ a task list.
Otherwise, time in its natural state in my brain is without dimension,
flat or even a singularity, just the present. Time enlarges to
perceptible or imaginable dimension principally by my directing my
attention to what project or tasks I might work on at the present, or
at some future time, and by assessing what those tasks involve and
what resources and limitations I have or will have (such as energy,
relevant skills and base knowledge, particular information, etc.).
The more detail I am able to imagine, the better sense I will have of
how long (or short) the task will take me. Regretably, I am a
weak-willed wizard, so I can imagine no further into the future than a
week or so at very best.

Because my native sense of time is so poor, and yet I regard it as
important, and because I am compulsive, I measure much of my time to
the minute. (Yes, I am a lawyer, and I hate the timesheet as much as
anyone, but I must know and try to love my enemy.) Over months and
years, I have absorbed my statistics, and that helps me in the
short-term time estimation and planning I mentioned in the first
paragraph. I measure and record not just the beginning and end of
billable events, but of sleep time, of bathroom breaks, of travel
time, time between tasks, of interruptions of tasks, and so on. The
measured day written out on my paper time grid (usually 10-12 hours,
ending when I walk out of the office)must balance to the minute lest I
overbill or underbill. Because I lack much sense of time, I used with
some frequency to make mistakes such as billing 12 minutes when
something had in fact taken me 2 hours, 12 minutes, or the reverse.
Only a comprehensive chronology, balanced, helped me detect and
correct such magnitude errors.

What does this have to do with Ecco, or my wishlist for a successor?
I loathe Outlook, but still use its calendar (and Google Calendar) in
preference to Ecco's because of those boxes (or windows) in Outlook's
calendar that size themselves to fill the time between beginning and
end of the appointment entry--which frequently is no appointment at
all, but just the time I have (tried) to set aside to work on whatever
project I am trying to finish. The color bar in Ecco's calendar
simply doesn't have the same quick visual impact as those boxes, and
therefore requires much more mental work to assess whether there is
sufficient uncommitted time remaining in the morning block or
afternoon block to commit to something else. Similarly, those boxes
let me clearly see conflicting entries far better than the barber pole
color bar in Ecco, and, by presenting conflicting events as quite
distinct boxes on the same (or overlapping)horizontal plane, Outlook's
presentation much more quickly and graphically presents to my mind the
either/or choices
that I have.

On the other hand, and on the subject of "hierarchized to-do" that you
so fruitfully highjacked, Ecco's calendar is so much more flexible
because I don't have to lie to Ecco that the entry scheduled from 1300
-1500 is an appointment when in fact it is a door-closed, phone off,
tie loose work session. All Ecco requires is a date folder with time
entries in addition to date. And under the project TLI assiged to
ToDo, I can have an outline list of the discrete tasks that help me
imagine time and decide how much time to schedule for a project, or
whether the time available is realiztic. I can toggle to a single
line or to full detail display. I hope Ecco's revival or successor
could retain Ecco functionality but present date/time entries in its
calendar in Outlook style boxes or windows.

Returning to my compulsive time measuring, I regret that Ecco regards
five minutes as sufficiently fine time discrimination for all
purposes. That's fine for appointment/to-do scheduling and visual
representation, but it is too crude for time data as I use the data.
I would use logging/stopwatch functions in Ecco but for the
insufficient discrimination.

End. JLBagwell
stephenzeoli
2006-11-27 16:30:59 UTC
Permalink
Fred,

Certainly you are right that most PIMs don't support hierarized to-
dos, but I have several that do. One that has intrigued me and may
be of interest is called Priorganizer:

http://www.riaform.com/page.aspx?
page=product.htm&product=priorganizer

Some others:
Ariadne: (http://open-sft.com)
My Life Organized (www.mylifeorganized.net)
Achieve Planner (http://www.effexis.com/achieve/planner.htm)

No pretending, however, that any of these match ECCO's
functionality. Still waiting for that software.

Steve Z.
Post by frdtheman
Hi
While checking out a few PIMs this week, once again, I've been
confronted with this very puzzling thing: Why do so few PIM's
offer
Post by frdtheman
hierarchized to-do's like Ecco, and only stick to one-dimensional to-
do-'s?
At best, they only let you group items in a group, at worst, they
require you to prepend a subject, eg.
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds - NYT
Buy appartment - 1 - Classifieds - CraigsList
Buy appartment - 2 - Check out neighborhood
etc.
Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?
Fred.
Will Sargent
2006-11-27 18:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenzeoli
Fred,
Certainly you are right that most PIMs don't support hierarized to-
dos, but I have several that do. One that has intrigued me and may
http://www.riaform.com/page.aspx?
page=product.htm&product=priorganizer
Ariadne: (http://open-sft.com)
My Life Organized (www.mylifeorganized.net)
Achieve Planner (http://www.effexis.com/achieve/planner.htm)
Try Shadow Plan. :-)

Will.
frdtheman
2006-11-27 22:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenzeoli
Certainly you are right that most PIMs don't support hierarized to-
dos, but I have several that do. One that has intrigued me and may
Thanks a lot for the input :-) I didn't know about Ariadne and
Priororganizer:

http://www.open-sft.com/ariadne/win.htm
http://www.todolistmgr.com/pics/priorganizer/hierarchical_task_list.
jpg

The thing is that all PIM's use the usual to-do look with checkboxes.
They don't offer a more free-flow look like Ecco, which is important
because people use those either to create to-do's or organize their
thoughts, ie. an outliner. It shouldn't take much more to offer both
behaviors.
Post by stephenzeoli
No pretending, however, that any of these match ECCO's
functionality. Still waiting for that software.
... which is very puzzling: After all, Ecco is just a GUI interface to
a database whose schema users can modify by adding, renaming, and
deleting columns, and a graphical way to perform a simple SELECT
mycolumn from mytable.

Personnaly, the existing columns are good enough for what I do so have
no need for enhancing the database and would already be very happy if
I could find a PIM that offers an Ecco-like outliner. So far, no luck
...

Thanks.
John
2012-08-12 03:34:44 UTC
Permalink
I just came across Essential that has hierarchical To-Do & notes, contacts, calendar and email. Has Windows, Android & iOS versions http://www.essentialpim.com/

John
Post by frdtheman
Post by stephenzeoli
Certainly you are right that most PIMs don't support hierarized to-
dos, but I have several that do. One that has intrigued me and may
Thanks a lot for the input :-) I didn't know about Ariadne and
http://www.open-sft.com/ariadne/win.htm
http://www.todolistmgr.com/pics/priorganizer/hierarchical_task_list.
jpg
The thing is that all PIM's use the usual to-do look with checkboxes.
They don't offer a more free-flow look like Ecco, which is important
because people use those either to create to-do's or organize their
thoughts, ie. an outliner. It shouldn't take much more to offer both
behaviors.
Post by stephenzeoli
No pretending, however, that any of these match ECCO's
functionality. Still waiting for that software.
... which is very puzzling: After all, Ecco is just a GUI interface to
a database whose schema users can modify by adding, renaming, and
deleting columns, and a graphical way to perform a simple SELECT
mycolumn from mytable.
Personnaly, the existing columns are good enough for what I do so have
no need for enhancing the database and would already be very happy if
I could find a PIM that offers an Ecco-like outliner. So far, no luck
...
Thanks.
Scott Leger
2006-11-30 01:26:20 UTC
Permalink
Interesting concept -- the biggest problem I have with any of the PIM's is 'seeing' just enough information at any point in time to decide what to do next.

Have you checked out TopicScape? www.topicscape.comScott.


To: eccopro-hHKSG33Tihig7M29m/***@public.gmane.org: TenacularDogs-RRfTRPb+***@public.gmane.org: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:29:29 -0500Subject: Re: [eccopro] Why so few PIMs support hierarchized to-do's?






Great question, Fred! My guess is that it has little or nothing to do with techno-appliances or software. I think your question hit the answer nail on the head -- it's PEOPLE!

A friend I've made through this group just queried out loud on the phone to me a couple of days ago about why people like me hate 'standard,' widely used programs like Microsoft and love ECCO. At the time, he was helping me -- via long distance -- use my Retrospect software in conjunction with an external harddrive. We both were frustrated by some of the software's assumptions. He opined that basic users wouldn't have as much trouble as we were having. I agreed.

I think that some us think 'too much' or in 'too much' structure. I know that my brain works according to a structure that's quite similar in nature to ECCO. I thank God for ECCO frequently, limitations and all. The ability to store my thoughts in a computer and print them out is very important to me. Having a program like ECCO enables me to do so in a way that doesn't twist my brain into a pretzel. I really appreciate that!

I literally can picture my brain dictating a 3D software image in its very own unique structure -- in the future. Until that future day arrives, I'm probably "stick" with ECCO.

And, how's this for a segway?

I'd really appreciate it if you folks would share how you 'see' (picture in your heads) time. This is a topic I find fascinating. Apparently, I don't 'see' time like most people. And, most people I ask (non-ECCO type people, for sure) claim they don't even 'see' time. If I didn't see it, I frankly don't know how I could get through it! Which means, I'd be at a complete stand-still in my life. In analogous terms, if I couldn't envision where my route to destination is taking me, via ground or air transportation, I wouldn't go, would you? I see the map in my head.

With regard to time, I likewise need to see where I'm going. And, I need to see where I've been to know where I am. Time -- Future and Past -- has a particular picture for me. Ironically (compared to 'normal' people), I have great difficulty picturing the Present. To me, it essentially doesn't exist, because it's in between Past and Future. It doesn't exist for me except in that context. As the ultimate In Between, it's really a Naught.

I hope that future software calendar developers find a way to create a more 3D version of time. All my systems of prioritization get bogged down, even in ECCO, because I can't 'see' how to get things done in two-dimensions. This is because I see the primary limitation to prioritizing as Time. Money and other resources certainly come into play, but the primary delimiter is Time.

When I reformat an hour, a day, a week or a month from what I've entered (usually laboriously and meticulously) in ECCO into my 3D version of it, I can 'see' where to fit in what I need or want to get done. If I don't do this, I'm quite literally stuck. I think this is why I tend to keep going back to the drawing board, literally, and write/draw out my priorities when it gets down to crunch time. They're still in 2D, but they more approximate something I can envision than ECCO facilitates. I get rather aggravated that I'm duplicating effort going back and forth between trying to reconfigure my data in ECCO, reconfiguring what I have on paper, and then reconciling the two. This seems like a waste of time; however, if I don't do it, and I'm looking at my life objectively, I can see that it tends to slow down, or get bogged down. I tend to slip off into too many directions and lose sight of my goals. And, yes, I do 'see' my goals. I also 'see' the roads I need to take to reach them, bumps and all. I just see this like a movie in my head, not in a 2D format on my computer. The bumps tend to be literal gray areas until I reach them. Often times, I find that defining the bump leads directly to a decision as to how to get past it -- and, I tend to envision this in terms like blasting it apart, going around it, over it or through it, getting someone else to move it out of my way, etc.

Back to how I 'see' time -- I see weeks much more clearly than days or months, months more clearly than days. An hour, sadly, is quite a nebulous concept for me. Instead of fighting myself (more than I already do), I try to structure my priorities into what I think I can get done in a week. I can describe for you, fairly literally, how I 'see' a week, because I see them so much more clearly than other blocks of time. They start on Sunday, are elliptical, ending on Saturday, and each Saturday connects with the Sunday that follows it. The ellipses spiral upward beginning on the next Sunday. The ellipses, therefore, aren't flat. They're not like the typical monthly calendar which shows weeks stacked on top of each other. My geometry terminology is somewhat lacking here, but the spirals are further apart in the near future, and they get tighter as time progresses. I think this is because I can 'see' getting more done in the near future than in the distant future. Of course, I often try to stuff a superhuman amount of stuff to get done into the next week or two that I see in my head.

I have a much more linear 'view' of a day, and I think that's part of why I can't get as much done within the scope of a week if I plan it day-by-day as opposed to as a whole week.

When I do picture my time -- my appointments and tasks -- in a daily, weekly or monthly view, either in my head, on the computer or on a printout, I find that adding color to various categories (blue for business, green for fun, pink for doctor's appts, purple for my son's activities, orange for standing appts, red for anything highlighted, etc. -- it's too bad I've had to tweak my system to conform to ECCO's colors) makes it more functional for me. My ECCO friend was the first to make me aware that color is a dimension, much as an x or y or z axis. Now, it makes much more sense to me why I feel compelled to add color to my calendars, no matter where they are or their format.

I suppose the 'new' virtual reality tools, holograms and such would enable the kind of calendaring, tasking and prioritizing software I'd find most useful. Since the bulk of you folks seem a lot more techie than I am, I question why we seem to be struggling as a group to find an alternative to ECCO that will 'fit' our particular needs. Already, we've been waiting for many years for an improved version/alternative, and the general consensus seems to be there isn't one. If we wait just a few more, I 'foresee' a software program that truly will meet our needs. How does that famous phrase from "Field of Dreams" go? "If you build it, they will come?" Well, I predict, "If you see it -- Time, a block of Time, a Task, an Appointment, a Priority -- you'll be able to replicate it in some form of system that will allow you to log it, manipulate it, recall it or 'virtually' even change it."

Joule

In a message dated 11/26/2006 9:19:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ***@yahoo.com writes:
Why are we the only people who find this stupid and stick to Ecco?
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